00;00;02;14 - 00;00;25;11
Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to further. I'm Brennan Grimm. this week, a little different. We had three different people preaching, at our three different campuses.

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Brenton
So going around the table, we got Christian Frye, we have Jeremiah Landon, and then, Nathan Williams. So welcome, guys. Thanks for coming.

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Nathan
It's good to be here. Thanks.

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Brenton
so, before we really get started here, I found it interesting that two of the three of you talked about your, theater experience. so, Nathan, I was curious what what yours was. If you were ever in Riverdance or.

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Nathan
I can say I was it probably never. No, no. Guaranteed. I never will be. Let's just leave it at that. I'm going to leave the rhythm up to other people.

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Brenton
I would personally love to see you, and.

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Nathan
I'm sure you would. You'd have a good laugh, too.

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Christian
We have the river for it.

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Brenton
True. All right, so, this this passage is a little different than, you know, a lot of the stuff that we preach, on here. So being that it's a narrative. What how how is that different preparing for, this message than it is preparing for, you know, a different type of of literature. How did how did this week go prepping for you?

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Jeremiah
I'd say, for for me, it was it was enjoyable simply because narratives are stories. And so, really understanding the story, and then telling that story in a way that is understandable and then, really hitting on the application of it. and so for me, it was it was enjoyable and it was, it was especially applicable for, for me.

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Jeremiah
and, and I was hoping that it would be as applicable for, everybody else that was, there on Sunday.

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Nathan
So I just love the stories. And I just got caught up in the story itself. And sometimes for me, when I do that, it's hard to look for the application. So as we're preparing, that was a challenge for me was the application for for me that I can get across to everybody from this awesome story. Yeah.

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Christian
Yeah, I think the, the most unique part for me was not necessarily the fact that it was narrative because I'm like, Nathan, I love telling stories and people like listening to good stories. So it really there's an ease to it in that sense when you are able to embrace it. I think what the the challenge, the challenge came in and the part of the story that we're telling, it's a very short snippet of the of the story because we're, you know, stretching it over a series.

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Christian
So figuring out what exactly to do with this kind of, you know, middle ground, part of of the book where it's kind of it's kind of gloomy, and we're only kind of dropping hints at some of the stuff God's doing. Big picture that that was a challenge I would say.

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Brenton
Yeah. Well, and, you know, coming up with application out of like you said, it's kind of the middle of the book. There isn't necessarily a clear application coming out of that. And you can see that in the three of your, messages, too, where, you know, Nathan, you ended up on a lot more of, obedience, coming out of and especially, like, out of the Saul story, from from Samuel.

00;03;36;08 - 00;04;01;27
Brenton
But, and then you to kind of landed on lament. And so, yeah, it's that's interesting. It's, it's a different way, of, of preaching and it's going to be, it's going to change how you prep as well. So, yeah. That's good. so I'm just kind of curious here in Esther three, we clearly see Heyman's disdain for the Jewish people.

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Brenton
oh. You guys did a good job explaining where those feelings came from. Heyman. Heyman was, aggregate. And there was a history between the Amalekites and Israel. but what I'm curious about is, was there any indication that Xerxes had a problem with Jewish people before him and brought it up? like, why? Why did Esther and Mordecai feel like they needed to hide their identity just by coming to that area?

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Nathan
I don't know if there's anything specifically in the text that indicates that, that he had a problem with the Jewish people, but, we know that the Jews always had problems in their from from just the people around him. For instance, let's go back a couple generations to to Darius and there's Darius was a good friend of Daniel.

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Nathan
You know, they got on great, but the people were jealous. The other people, the governors, whatever they're like, let's get him in trouble. And then the king won't have anything, be able to get him out of this trouble. And and I don't know the situation in this, but it would appear that's a similar situation where where they're just afraid.

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Nathan
Who's going to get us in trouble now? and I don't know that King Xerxes really had any knowledge of that, but, I'm just speculating here because the text doesn't really tell us.

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Christian
Yeah, it seems all throughout the Old Testament, God's people, Israel, the Jews had to kind of walk on eggshells around worldly power, worldly leaders. It usually Darius is a great example. It usually did not go well. So I'm with Nathan. I think you put that, really concisely. We can't really we don't have any reason to to believe that, but it's safe to assume, Mordecai and Esther were just a few.

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Christian
Maybe slight slip ups away from getting on Xerxes bad side because of their Jewish heritage.

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Brenton
Yeah, yeah, maybe just safe to assume that they were kind of on edge.

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Christian
Yeah. Right. Exactly.

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Brenton
And a lot of places that they went.

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Nathan


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Brenton
Okay. So, in this text we see Mordecai hanging out in, in the right place at the right time to overhear two people planning an assassination. Nathan, you spent some time talking about coincidences and, and the, the beginning of your message. And I think it's easy to look at a story like this, knowing the ending and say, of course, like, this is a clear example of God working.

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Brenton
But I also think it's common for us in our day to day lives and in the middle of circumstance is to to think the things happening coincidentally. what are your thoughts? I know you spent some time looking. I mean, you, like, at least sharing your opinion on this, but what are your thoughts on coincidences versus versus God's providence?

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Nathan
Coincidences? coincidences are God's providence. In my my own mind, it's like we have come up with the world. Has come up with the word coincidences because it explains things or helps us explain things that we can explain. And but really, God's Word explains it all, that he is in control. He is sovereign. He knows everything before happen.

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Nathan
From the foundation of the world to til future eternity. He knows it all. What's going to happen now? The question is do. Do we understand it as that or not? Like you said, Brenton, it's easy to know the story and then say, yeah, that's why that was happening. Of course, but God is working in that.

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Nathan
But here's the deal. God is working in our lives all the time. I mean, if he chose us from the foundation of the world, I mean, think about it, Christian. I think you used maybe an example of how many descendants you had. You know, I mean, within just a few generations and, like, you go back, it could be millions of people, but yet God knew you were going to be you and that you were going to be preaching last Sunday.

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Nathan
He knew that the foundation of the world. Is that a coincidence or is that all part of God's great plan? So. So one of the things we got to understand, you know what I mean? Even as we're going through our daily lives and tragedies happen and horrible things happen where you say, oh, that was an an awful coincidence that that happened.

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Nathan
That's that's tragedy or even the good things that happen. Oh, that was a great question. Or should we stop and say, What is God teaching me through this? What is God? How is he leading me? You know, one of the one of my favorite verses is, is in the beginning of James James chapter one, verses two through four.

00;08;44;05 - 00;09;05;09
Nathan
Consider it pure joy, my friends, when you face trials of many kinds, because you know the testing, we have faith. All these coincidences, these things are having a really a testimony of faith. So, you know, the testing their faith produces perseverance and perseverance when it's run its course with it's more mature and complete, lacking nothing. All these things that happen, we've got to stop and say, oh, that's awful.

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Nathan
Or we stop and say, God, what are you teaching me through this to make me stronger and more complete in you?

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Christian
Yeah. Yeah I like what you said. The coincidence is, is a, that's a, that's a word the world came up with. And so often we see the world kind of watered down truths of God for everyday language for the I don't know the, the acceptance of everyday language. or you know, just the making it seem a little bit more informal.

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Christian
you know, I think of the term blessed, you know, it's kind of interchangeable with the concept of like, benefits. You know, your employer doesn't give you blessings. They give you benefits. And but those benefits are often blessings. and we see them as blessings from God. All blessings of life. and the world might not want to admit it that way.

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Christian
They might want to call it a benefit or a perk or an advantage. So we do it with other words too. In coincidence versus providence, I think is a perfect example of that.

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Brenton
yeah. Good. So if somebody were to, you know, grasp that well, through their situations, you know, you kind of touched on it, Nathan, but how would that change the way we, we approach heart or good circumstances?

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Nathan
So really when, when, when when things happen in our lives, it's God's providence he brings that now we still got the choice to be obedient or disobedient in that. And, the example I used a couple of examples. Joseph is one, you know, I mean, coincidence that his brother sent him into Egypt as a slave, as coincidence that he got falsely accused, a coincidence or all God's providence.

00;10;47;04 - 00;11;09;14
Nathan
And Joseph could have shook his fist at guns, says, well, God, if you were real, you wouldn't allow all these awful things to happen. But he didn't, in fact. And all these all, all indications would show all, too, that, that he still had a faith in God. Right? And that's shown out in Genesis 45 when he finally reveals themselves to his brothers and they're like, oh, no, you're going to kill us now, right?

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Nathan
And he says, no, no, no, hold on. I said, you didn't send me here. God did, God did. And then a few chapters later in chapter 50, where again, dad dies and they're saying, now you're probably going because you just didn't kill him, because dad was still alive and you didn't want to upset him. But now that he's dead, just make us your slaves.

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Nathan
And he says, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. He breaks down and cries and says, what? You intended for evil. God intended for good so that many lives could be saved. Here's here's Joseph recognizing the providence of God, not coincidence. Now, I'm sure he didn't even understand it at the time because like you said, when we're going through it, we don't even understand that it's God working.

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Nathan
But he is. And Joseph was able to look back and no, no, God was working all the time. God was all going all the time. But his obedience paid out wonderful dividends. Saul, on the other hand, was God's providence that he should wipe out the Amalekites, but he didn't. He disobeyed in this case, and his disobedience, unlike Joseph, resulted in him and his descendants like the throne being taken away from them, and ultimately the Amalekites not being wiped out, which meant men.

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Nathan
We had to deal with them later, but even in that God's providence was in that knowing that Saul was going to disobeying and knowing that they weren't going to get wiped out so he could get the glory, even in Esther. Spoiler alert, by the way.

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Brenton
Yeah, that's that's interesting, the story of Joseph, because, you see, not you know, not necessarily him understanding the circumstances, but you just see his faithfulness to what he knew he needed to do. And so it makes me wonder, maybe this is getting ahead of ourselves a little bit, but makes me wonder that, you know, when we hit those hard things in our lives, is there is there any, advantage of of asking why, of wondering why those things are happening or is our duty just, okay, just, you know, keep keep obeying, keep seeing, staying faithful.

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Nathan
That's the the romance. Me?

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Jeremiah
Yeah. That's where that's where the practice of events are really, really helpful because it it it's in it puts both of those together. but it puts the like the, the asking and the and the even complaining, at the same time that you're trusting, and there's a, there's a tension in that. it's also interesting because like, as you're, through it throughout the Old Testament, you see this and, and Scripture points to this is, is to look back and how helpful that can be, like, how many times it talks about I'm the God that brought the Israelites out of Egypt, like he's God's wanting them to to remember, and like

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Jeremiah
ultimately to lead them to trust. and, and that's really kind of helpful for us even today. Yeah.

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Brenton
Yeah, yeah. Thanks for that, Jeremiah. All right. So that's kind of where I want to transition to. Now, both you and Christian really spent some time on on the idea of lament. and I think we as a church have been talking about that more and more. and, you know, I think as a, as a broader, you know, church, big church, this isn't something that is dealt with, that often.

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Brenton
And so my first question with this is, why do you think this is such an uncomfortable topic for us?

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Jeremiah
I, I think that because it has to deal with pain, I think it has to deal with, with, things that aren't good. and, a lot of times, the church as a whole, the picture of it is, is, well put together, put on your Sunday best. and so you've got that along with, how our culture, really, especially for, I think, for, for, for guys, it's not showing emotion.

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Jeremiah
and we have to, we have to, suppress those feelings to, to be the strong ones. and so, like, between all of that and I'm sure that there's even more to it, it becomes just very uncomfortable when when you start talking about, talking about, hard things and talk about, pain and sorrow and anger.

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Christian
Yeah, yeah. Something something that Pastor Chris has, has brought, our leadership in on is this concept of dark side, the dark side and the light side of emotions, particularly negative emotions. So anger's a good example. There. There's part of anger that's obviously dark. There's there's part of feeling angry that is sinful. but, you know, anger can be redemptive, through like, means of, of righteous anger, sadness.

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Christian
You know, it's important to feel sad when you're grieving. If you're not feeling sad when you're grieving, you're not human. but sad sadness can also accompany a lot of of sinful feelings and behaviors, too. and so I think when you, when you start to, to lament and have a relationship with God through lamenting, you are kind of you're exploring some of these negative emotions and you have you need to, you need to engage with, with the dark side of those emotions.

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Christian
But I think it's also important to understand that you're also engaging with the light side, the light side of those emotions that that make us human.

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Nathan
Yeah.

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Brenton
Yeah, maybe I'll just pause here for a minute. And, you know, Christian, you gave a definition of of lamenting by, Mark broke up, this week and I think I'm just going to read that just so everyone's on the same page here, but, he said the wailing of the heart before a God who hears, who listens and who responds to our cries, lament is, prayer in pain that leads to trust.

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Brenton
You might think, lament is the opposite of praise. It isn't. Instead, lament is a path to praise, as we all, as we are led through our brokenness and disappointment. I think of lament as the transition between pain and promise. and so, yeah, I think with that, with that as the backdrop, I think we can talk about it a little more.

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Brenton
But, you know, I think there's so many examples of the, of the Psalms of where we see David really practiced as well. and it's again, it's something that I think is missing from a lot of our experiences as, as Christians or, you know, our experiences in churches. And so maybe my next question is, how do we how do we start to get better at it?

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Brenton
How do we, practice this more? How do we kind of get past the uncomfortableness of it and, and deal with it?

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Jeremiah
I, I honestly think one of the best things that we can do to even start is to, is to read, a lot of these laments within Scripture, and understand that, and try to figure out what is the emotion that is, being portrayed in, in that, to understand that it's not, the, the all of the Psalms are not the same.

00;18;47;06 - 00;19;07;15
Jeremiah
You have joyful Psalms, you have Psalms that are angry, that are asking why God? and then you've got, one and you've got ones that are just in sorrow, and, and so just by even starting to read them, it can be a really good place to, to go.

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Brenton
Yeah. We also have in purgatory Psalms that we don't talk about very often.

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Jeremiah
Yeah, absolutely.

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Nathan
And I suggest we take a page out of our children and let me explain that here for a second. Yeah. I mean, I think kids were made more pure in that their faith is more pure. Unless you have the faith of a small child, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Their lamenting is more pure. What do they do in their lament?

00;19;31;12 - 00;19;57;12
Nathan
When they're sad? What do they do? They go to dad or mom for comfort. And we've forgotten. As we get stronger, our faith gets because we get more self-sufficient. We don't need anyone to lament to. We don't need anyone to have faith in anyone. You know what I mean? We do, but in our mind we don't. And to to watch your kids and to see when they're sad and they just come and they wrap their arms around their parent and the parent just loves them.

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Nathan
That's lamenting how, what would it be like that of us, that for us, if we were to go to God in that way, like our kids come to us and and just let him rap or just weep and, and throw ourselves at his mercy and let him come alongside us and love us and hold us. It's that time where we can just have that.

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Nathan
It's a coming together that I think we've lost in our adult ness, that we need to go back and take a page out of our kids life.

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Brenton
Yeah, it's an interesting point. okay, so so on that I think maybe one factor, of this is who we see God as, and so what what is the fact that we are welcome and encouraged to, to bring our complaints to God, say about his character? And what are we maybe misunderstanding about his character that, keeps us from this?

00;20;56;03 - 00;21;25;06
Christian
Well, God, by way of Jesus elements firsthand. And so, to be Christlike is to, is to lament. Jesus cried a lot. And then there's the the kind of the most poignant example of, of the cross where Jesus quotes, a psalm of lament when he says, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? So it's important to understand that God sent His Son into the world to be fully God, to be fully man.

00;21;25;09 - 00;21;48;24
Christian
And that encapsulates lament that encapsulates embracing these, these human emotions that that we also should embrace and being like him. Because then we know that, that God experiences them and God created us to experience them as well.

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Jeremiah
I had, I had a quote from Paul Miller, that that talked about lament, might seem, disrespectful, but they're in fact filled with faith, a raw, pure form of faith, simply taking God at his word. and just the the it is an act of faith, but it is a reminder that, like God, God is faithful yesterday, today, forevermore.

00;22;15;06 - 00;22;28;15
Jeremiah
And so like it's it's taking him at his word. and and knowing that the truth that we find in Scripture is, is is truth of God.

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Brenton
Yeah. And I think just the understanding that God can take our complaints. Right. He can handle that. Yeah. And maybe that's, you know, we we fear repercussions from that. and maybe some of that comes from earthly fathers or, you know, how how is my father going to respond to my complaints? Right. And maybe that's just an uncomfortable conversation for for a lot of us.

00;22;55;08 - 00;22;55;28
Brenton


00;22;56;00 - 00;23;14;22
Nathan
I think, too, we've built up this. Well, a lot of people have built up this, this idea in their head that God is he's there to beat us over the head as soon as we step out of line. And we we've got this image in our head of a wrathful God. But Psalm, Psalm 103 says, it says this.

00;23;14;22 - 00;23;38;24
Nathan
The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love. He will not always chide, nor will keep his anger forever. So, so, so remembering that God, he's really a God of mercy and compassion. I mean, passing judgment is his last resort, you know what I mean? He really. He desires that none should perish, that all.

00;23;39;00 - 00;24;13;08
Nathan
But that all should come to repentance. He is so much, so kind and so gracious. And we tend to think of the judgmental God instead of this God. But but his attributes are such that we should be running to him, knowing that he's full of compassion, knowing that he is always ready to forgive. And yes, even when we lament and we complain to God when we do that and he wraps his arms around us, it helps us to remember how most of them psalms and is, I have remembered your steadfast love.

00;24;13;13 - 00;24;18;08
Nathan
God's always loved us, but we just need to be reminded of that.

00;24;18;11 - 00;24;38;26
Christian
I think going back all the way to Genesis to, you know, Genesis six six, I think this is kind of a glass shatter shattering verse along these lines. after there's, there's, sin enters the world in the garden. It says the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth. So there we see him feeling, a very unpleasant emotion of regret.

00;24;38;28 - 00;25;04;06
Christian
And it grieved him in his heart. And there we see him experiencing another unpleasant emotion of grief. And that doesn't sound like a like, you know, pie in the sky, domineering, iron fisted. God, that sounds that sounds like me. That sounds like things that I experience. and so that just even reading about God in, in Genesis and then, you know, harmonizing that with the fact that we are made in his image again, that brings us into that.

00;25;04;06 - 00;25;12;18
Christian
That's an invitation into deeper, intimacy with him, a deeper understanding of who we are because of who he is.

00;25;12;21 - 00;25;33;12
Jeremiah
You know, like, pointing this, like bringing this to the, the gospel, you were you were like, how can how can we trust that God would would take that? and, I'm just reminded of, of Romans eight, where he talks about he that did not spare his own son, but delivered him up for us all.

00;25;33;12 - 00;25;57;16
Jeremiah
How will he not also freely give us all things like the the Christ on the cross, God showing his love in that way, like, is, is one of the biggest ways that we can understand that God is God loves us so much and and he and he wants us to have that right relationship with him. He wants us to to rest in him.

00;25;57;19 - 00;26;02;08
Jeremiah
and, and so, yeah, looking, looking at the, at the cross.

00;26;02;11 - 00;26;31;01
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think so much of this is just having a better understanding of who God is and, and being willing to accept, that he is merciful and he does actually care about us. so, one last thing. I, I would guess that one thing that holds us back, from lamenting, well, is that we can see our situations as insignificant when compared to others.

00;26;31;01 - 00;26;55;00
Brenton
And so, you know, we look at a story like Esther, there a whole race of people in that area is facing possible genocide. And so, you know, yes, or reason to lament there when we have issues happen in our life, I think it can seem so insignificant that it's like, well, why would God even care about that? And yet it can be so consuming to us.

00;26;55;02 - 00;27;00;26
Brenton
And so what would you say to someone who feels that their their problems are just insignificant to to God?

00;27;01;00 - 00;27;23;23
Nathan
So I think Jesus point this out when he says, you know what? If I know the number of hairs on your head, Jeremiah, I know the number of hairs on your head, but I don't know the number of hairs on everyone else's head here. But but but, but all joking aside, if Jesus knows the number of hairs on our head, he knows more about us than he, than we know ourselves.

00;27;23;26 - 00;27;50;04
Nathan
And he cares if a hair falls to the ground. He also cares about the little, the splinter in your little finger. He cares about all that. There is nothing too small for God to care about. And that's that's that the awesomeness of God. You know, some people have this idea. Well, well, I'm going to I'm going to pray to the saints or I'm going to pray to this or that because Jesus is too busy to hear my prayers or you know what I mean?

00;27;50;06 - 00;28;13;25
Nathan
It's like, no, no, the awesomeness of God means that he can he can know everything about you and care so much about you at the same time. He's caring about and and in Ethiopia, you know what I'm saying? I mean, I think we we tend to forget the greatness of God and the awesomeness of God, and God is not.

00;28;13;25 - 00;28;34;29
Nathan
Two beyond our little problems are insignificant problems. And sometimes it's going to be insignificant. But tomorrow it might be a catastrophe. And if I don't learn to trust him in the small things, how am I going to trust him in the big things? Things when they come so I need to trust him here and now in the every day.

00;28;35;01 - 00;28;51;26
Nathan
And when those big things come, I've got into a habit, a practice of being going to go go in to him. And I know exactly how to go to him. So that the alternative would be, is I can trust him in the little things. So how can I trust him in the big things? You know what I mean?

00;28;51;26 - 00;28;54;18
Nathan
So we don't want to go there.

00;28;54;20 - 00;29;26;18
Jeremiah
this this can be helpful. but, like, like I said, you look back, and one of the best ways that we can do that is, is to to write out, like, write things out that, write prayers out, and then, so those that journal this is a great opportunity for you to be able to do this and then to be able to look back on, where you've seen God to, to see that those aren't just coincidences, to see how God has been faithful to that.

00;29;26;21 - 00;29;45;28
Jeremiah
I, I often actually, point back to this. When I was in college, I, it was towards my senior year, and, just spent a little bit of time just thinking back on how, I had been placed in the place, like where I was at, and I was just like, it's it's God. That put me here.

00;29;46;01 - 00;30;15;22
Jeremiah
There's no other reason why I should be where I'm at and what I'm doing. much of why I'm in ministry now is, is because of God has placed me where I am at. it wasn't just a, an insignificant chance, a coincidence like it is God at work. And so, like, it's those little things that that point to, like putting, putting trust into into God, in, in the minute things.

00;30;15;22 - 00;30;28;27
Jeremiah
So then in the big things like that is your, that is your rhythm that you do that is the what what you, are first to do quick to do.

00;30;28;29 - 00;30;57;12
Christian
Yeah. I thought, Nathan, you were talking about the nearness of God in the in the greatness of God. Psalm 56. It talks about how our tears are kept in a bottle. And that's always just a powerful image. because, you know, for all of us, that's a lot of tears, whether we want to admit it or not. and again, God is near, and he's, he was so near that that he sent a piece of himself to to come and save us.

00;30;57;14 - 00;31;26;09
Christian
and I think to on like a, a sociological level, when you compare yourself to others, you know, it's a breeding grounds for all kinds of unhealthy dynamics to take root. But I think it also, it's really prideful to compare yourself to others because you're, you're you're kind of thinking of your own issues just in a different way than you're thinking of other people's issues.

00;31;26;11 - 00;31;48;14
Christian
And granted, that's it. Maybe in a more self-deprecating or, you know, you're you're devaluing your own pain in your own, your own feelings. But yeah, I think in a roundabout way, that does kind of come back to to pride and a lack of humility to understand that we all have, you we all go through stuff and we all have things that, that, that break us.

00;31;48;14 - 00;32;04;08
Christian
And we don't need to compare ourselves to one another. as we, you know, seek wholeness in God. And, you know, that's why community is so important, finding places where you can be yourself and you don't feel the need to to compare, put on front.

00;32;04;10 - 00;32;21;29
Brenton
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So, Jeremiah, you gave us one kind of practical step of journaling. any other any other practical steps that people could be thinking about taking in, in kind of a journey to, to do this better, to limit well.

00;32;22;02 - 00;32;51;24
Jeremiah
I mean, there are people that are very, very creative that use music as, as an outlet, to be able to do that. honestly, taking having space to be able to, like, just sit in quietness to be able to, just think, and, and, let, let, let the Lord speak to you.

00;32;51;26 - 00;33;18;23
Jeremiah
I had an opportunity yesterday to, to go and just do that, and, be able to just sit and look back. that's been the thing that I've, I've constantly had to remind myself, look back on what God has, has been doing, and let the Holy Spirit just do the work that the Holy Spirit does and, and, remind and and bring, bring to my attention.

00;33;18;26 - 00;33;47;24
Jeremiah
I think, memorizing, scripture, scripture like, what had been mentioned here, to, to help us remember, like, how big God is and how near he is. And, and even, scripture to, like for, for lament. and so those are a couple things. I open it up to Christian and Nathan and even Brenton.

00;33;47;26 - 00;33;49;20
Jeremiah
Anything that you guys have done.

00;33;49;23 - 00;34;13;27
Christian
I think it's, yeah, there's there's just an awareness that we often lack. And perhaps part of it is culturally, as Americans, we we suppress negative emotions. And that's evidenced by the music. We listen to, the movies we watch, the books we read. People just want, you know, largely we want a feel good experience in every, every area of life.

00;34;13;27 - 00;34;36;27
Christian
And maybe even just thinking through that. Like, what? What movies am I watching? What, what music am I? Am I listening to music that I actually like, you know, stirs deep emotions within me? or am I just kind of listening to whatever's on the radio and trying to use it as, like, background noise to block out what, what even I am feeling or what I should be feeling.

00;34;36;29 - 00;35;07;20
Christian
you know, I think that's huge. And I think, again, just finding I already kind of alluded to this, but finding people who are willing to talk about the heavy things with you. that's so liberating. And I'd like to think that that's what, you know, that's where, like, harmonies, community groups come into play, find any community group or even maybe just a couple people from your community group, that you can get a little bit deeper with, specifically in terms of kind of exploring, some of the, the unpleasant emotions that you inevitably experience.

00;35;07;23 - 00;35;09;15
Christian
Yeah, we inevitably experience.

00;35;09;17 - 00;35;30;01
Nathan
I think you're lamenting who needs to be spiritual. and, and you mentioned both mentioned songs and stuff, and I agree 100% with that, but that that can be unhealthy. Lament. Sure. And we know we know a lot of people that listen to sad songs that there's they're just listening because they enjoy being sad. And then then they, they want to wallow in that misery.

00;35;30;01 - 00;36;02;05
Nathan
And I think that's an unhealthy kind of lament. And I think if we want to call it lamenting, but the sadness, whatever. yeah. But I remember lamenting in a healthy way needs to draw us closer to the Lord. It needs to be listening to those songs like you say that that, that focus in on the love of God even, and his love for us in the midst of our grief and pain and sorrow, focusing in on the Lord, who draws nearer and nearer to him, so again, the back to the Psalms.

00;36;02;05 - 00;36;24;06
Nathan
You know all those psalms of lament that they're focusing on the Lord. One of the Psalms in, in, in, in Psalms 138 is talking about the children of Israel while they're in Babylon. And that lament is just like, how can I sing a song to the Lord while I'm in captivity? So there's that lament and it's like, but it was about the Lord.

00;36;24;10 - 00;36;47;13
Nathan
It's like God, how can I sing to you when I'm here in captivity? But it was a plea to the Lord. And so, so all those, all those songs of lament, all us should draw us closer and closer and closer to the Lord. And then give us a reliance on him. Because in our sorrow it's because we don't.

00;36;47;13 - 00;37;08;29
Nathan
We don't feel complete. We need we need God. It's it's actually it's the opposite of pride. Pride is I don't need anything. I'm tough. Lamenting means I recognize I'm weak and I need God. And that's a beautiful thing about lamenting that it should draw us closer to God, our reliance on him.

00;37;09;02 - 00;37;16;09
Jeremiah
and honestly, that's why like, that first step is to turn to God absolutely nowhere else. Turn to God. Yeah.

00;37;16;11 - 00;37;17;12
Nathan
Yeah.

00;37;17;14 - 00;37;42;27
Brenton
Yeah, it's really good, guys. I appreciate it. I'm gonna I'm going to wrap up on this Psalm 34. David says, when the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears and delivers them out of all of their troubles. The Lord is near the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all.

00;37;43;00 - 00;38;09;02
Brenton
He keeps all his bones. Not one of them is broken. Affliction will slay the wicked, and those who hate the righteous will be condemned. The Lord redeems the life of his servants. None of those who take refuge in him will be condemned. So be encouraged, guys. And I, I really just do encourage you to not block those emotions out as we start with two things that we we actually wrestle with those things.

00;38;09;02 - 00;38;13;04

We bring them to the Lord and he can't handle it. He wants you to do that.

00;38;13;09 - 00;38;20;25
Brenton
So thanks again, guys. Really appreciate your work this week and for you who gives me wisdom.

00;38;20;27 - 00;38;22;09
Christian
Thank you.

00;38;22;11 - 00;38;24;01
Brenton
All right. We will talk to you guys next week.