00;00;24;27 - 00;00;44;17
Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper and biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to further. I'm Brenton Grim, and I am back. Hey, Chris. How's it going?

00;00;44;19 - 00;00;49;27
Chris
It's going well. It's really good to have you back. So, your vacation was good, I assume.

00;00;49;28 - 00;00;58;23
Brenton
Yeah, it was good. It's been a couple of weeks in the swamps of Florida. lots of theme parks. So I'm done with those now.

00;00;58;25 - 00;01;00;24
Chris
It didn't look like you got any sun, though.

00;01;00;27 - 00;01;44;02
Brenton
I don't miss the sun. I stay away year round. Now, I appreciate, I mean, we had five people involved with, with the episode last week, and so, they did a great job. So thankful that we have, a deep bench here for, for content. And so, yeah, really appreciative of that. okay, so this week we went over six, one one question that that came out, of me listening to it was that you said that the Persians believed that the royal attire that was given to Mordecai, held the blessings and the power of the gods.

00;01;44;04 - 00;01;49;14
Brenton
who would have who would this have typically been reserved for?

00;01;49;17 - 00;02;14;27
Chris
Yeah. Interesting. question. And, I just had something else. It wasn't even just the the royal robes and clothing and also included the king's bed and the throne and that they, in effect, had the power to impart, like the benefits of being the king in, like, a magical way, kind of like just put those on. We slept in that bed.

00;02;14;27 - 00;02;38;23
Chris
You sat on the throne like that. Just somehow the gods magically gave you the benefits and the blessings of royalty. And I think in some ways, it's because they they view the king in almost like a godlike fashion. Or at least you only became the king. through the, the, the, you know, the blessing of, of the gods.

00;02;38;23 - 00;03;07;27
Chris
And so I think it's pretty much anyone who, assumed those, those things, they were able to wear them and put them on. But primarily it would be the, the people who were, either ascending to the throne, either by natural succession or in many cases because they knocked off the the previous guy, or that the king would periodically maybe in like in this situation would actually honor it in such a way.

00;03;08;03 - 00;03;25;13
Brenton
So, so when when you refer to the, the gods obviously Persia was a pagan nation at that point, but what? So they were pantheist, but would that have been kind of the like Greek mythology at that time, or what would their gods have been?

00;03;25;14 - 00;03;52;09
Chris
Well, they I mean, the Greeks had their own gods and the Persians had their own gods. So, and some of the Persian gods were kind of leftovers, or they carried them over from the Babylonians. but remember, the Persians and the Greeks are the two superpowers of the day and Esther. And so they had their own gods and who everyone is, you know, and and, in the ancient world, it was seen as the gods were stronger than the other gods.

00;03;52;13 - 00;04;16;28
Chris
Okay. and we can even look in biblical history. you maybe remember the story in, first Samuel and the Ark of the covenant is taken for, and, the. I think it was, if I remember right, the Philistines actually end up getting hemorrhoids. Okay. And so they send the Ark back and all this and this, the the Yahweh is too powerful for us.

00;04;16;28 - 00;04;45;09
Chris
And so it's kind of a little bit, like that. So they, to get back to your to your question, the Persians had their, their, their own gods, the Babylonians had their own gods, the Greeks had their own gods. And they I think we're very similar. and, you know, represented the god of of the storm or rain, you know, thunder, fertility and all those things that they oftentimes I believe, they just call them by different by different names.

00;04;45;10 - 00;04;45;20
Chris
Yeah.

00;04;45;20 - 00;05;12;19
Brenton
Interesting. Okay. All right. So I want to get into kind of the, the main point of this episode, we're going to spend most of the time on this. a large part of your message was, was about pride. you discussed self absorption and, and actually quoted, a section of The Screwtape Letters that said pride is ruthlessly plus unsmiling concentration of self.

00;05;12;22 - 00;05;20;03
Brenton
So let's let's talk about the idea of of self esteem. What what is your view on on that.

00;05;20;06 - 00;05;30;21
Chris
Well, can you maybe be a little more specific my, my view on what it is or how it plays out or the issues with it or, well.

00;05;30;23 - 00;05;39;16
Brenton
Is is it a is it a worthwhile conversation to have whether whether we have high or low self-esteem?

00;05;39;18 - 00;06;06;19
Chris
I think it's worthwhile in the sense that it's something that our culture talks about almost incessantly. Right. so and, you know, the general definition of self esteem is or at least it has to do with how we value, and perceive ourselves. So how we're considering ourselves. And so I think high self esteem would be like we think of ourselves highly low self esteem as we think of ourselves too lowly.

00;06;06;21 - 00;06;39;29
Chris
We do not, and we don't value and perceive ourselves well. If we have low self esteem and maybe high self esteem, as we overvalue in having, a greater perception of ourselves than we should. Whereas, the biblical passage that that I would go to, I think is, is key here is, is the Romans 12 passage that we, we studied several months ago, 12 three for by the grace given to me, I say to every one of you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God is assigned.

00;06;40;06 - 00;07;01;26
Chris
So he he's counteracting here not only high self-esteem or overly high self-esteem, but also low self esteem. We're to think ourselves with sober judgment. And this is key, each according to the measure of faith that God is assigned. And it doesn't mean that guy gives different measures of faith. It means that we have faith to believe in Christ, that God grants us.

00;07;01;28 - 00;07;34;21
Chris
and so we all have the same, measure of faith that leads to salvation. And because of now we are in Christ, we should view ourselves in light of what is true about us in Christ. so I don't I don't think self-esteem is it's a wrong term if we understand it biblically instead of, you know, where we we I think what the world often does and we can be tempted to do is view our, value apart from Christ.

00;07;34;24 - 00;07;35;24
Brenton
Right.

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Chris
Without him, you need to think highly of your of yourself. but that conversation leaves God and leaves, Jesus out of the conversation. That's where we really get into the problem. But that's only in in what our culture is saying about you need to have a higher self esteem. It's also the antidote to a low self esteem, too.

00;07;53;17 - 00;08;24;16
Brenton
Right? Yeah. So speaking of that, another thing you said was that, you know, low self-worth and, and self, self contempt are all forms of self-absorption and you know, this was a big topic when I was growing up. I, I don't know, I, it doesn't seem like I've heard this this term self esteem all that much recently, but I remember, I mean, even talking about it in school, where like this, you have this need to, to have high self esteem.

00;08;24;18 - 00;08;50;01
Brenton
And I think that kind of caused me to go the opposite way. You know, I associated having high, high self esteem with pride. And so in my mind it followed that like low self esteem would mean humility. Right. So this ended up really causing me to have an unrealistic view of, like you said, you know what my what my value in in Christ is instead of, you know what?

00;08;50;04 - 00;09;14;07
Brenton
What my value is in my own eyes. And I think it it made me take, you know, my attention off of the gifts that God actually gave me and downplay all that. and so really, I mean, with you making that point that even, even our low self esteem is, is another form of pride, I found that it's an interesting it's an interesting topic.

00;09;14;07 - 00;09;16;05
Brenton
Can you talk a little more about that?

00;09;16;08 - 00;09;47;04
Chris
Sure. again, back to the definition. If we understand pride is self-absorption. And and quoting C.S. Lewis, I think it's. Yes. So that's a kind of a punch in the gut. His, his definition there. But if we understand that pride is we're making everything about us when we have low self esteem or low self-worth or self contempt, we're were failing to see what God says is true about us.

00;09;47;07 - 00;10;16;28
Chris
and we're failing. And again, it's not about us, but it's about it really is about him and recognizing, who we are. first of all, his is his creation. So this is really even true for, for for nonbelievers is that they have value and they have worth because they're made in the image of God. And God creates every individual with unique, talents, abilities, and a unique, for a unique place and purpose in the world.

00;10;17;00 - 00;10;42;26
Chris
And so even nonbelievers have, you know, have worth and value and, and and being able to recognize that. And we go to Psalm 139, we're fearfully and wonderfully made. And so, even apart from, from Christ, there is worth and value in us. now, people who don't have faith in Christ are not likely going to see that.

00;10;42;28 - 00;11;01;04
Chris
they're just they're either not going to see it at all and have low self-esteem, or they're going to see it's all about them. And they they have what they have because it's them they've worked for it. They've, you know, they just have natural ability. They made the right choices or things like that. And we go off, the path on either way.

00;11;01;04 - 00;11;24;12
Chris
But when it comes to low self esteem, it is again, it's not only not recognizing who who God, how God has created us and we're made in his image and we're fearfully and wonderfully made, but then as believers, further not seen that we are now in Christ and we're a new creation. And not seeing that now, what, is true about Christ is true.

00;11;24;12 - 00;11;45;10
Chris
True for us and not seeing the God like I ended the sermon with, like, he's well pleased with us and he delights in us. And not also seen like back to the Romans 12 I, Paul, is going to go on after the verse I just read, and he's going to talk about spiritual gifts. Like we all have spiritual gifts and spiritual abilities in a unique way.

00;11;45;10 - 00;12;19;00
Chris
Now that the spirit empowers us to, to serve God and to serve others and to serve the world and and so Lois and a lot of believers struggle with this is that they just do not, they do not see themselves in light of the gospel. And so that ultimately is when when we were not looking at, what God says about us and we're focused on what we say about us, that's that's just as much pride as the is the other.

00;12;19;03 - 00;13;01;19
Brenton
Yeah. So I guess what you're saying is the antidote to, to both of those ditches of high self esteem and low self esteem is, is to really not worry about what our view of our self is, but to recognize the truth of it. which is, you know, that we, we are justified and we're loved, but I think still practically that that stuff can, can still play out in some devastating ways in, you know, it might be a hold over from earlier in your life, but if you if you have a kind of chronic low view of yourself, it changes.

00;13;01;21 - 00;13;25;01
Brenton
your behavior changes how you react to other people. It changes so many things about you. and I think I can I can speak from experience on that. and so, yeah, I think and maybe just, you know, practically how do we how do we kind of begin to dig ourselves out of either one of those ditches?

00;13;25;04 - 00;13;54;02
Chris
Yeah. it's a great question. It's a big, big question. I don't know how much, help I can give in in a relatively short time here. I think we've got to begin with the gospel. And again, it's it's like, it's pride is making things about me. And I do want to go back and quote, something that I said on Sunday, which I couldn't figure out exactly who to attribute this to.

00;13;54;04 - 00;14;15;02
Chris
Some attribute this to see us, Lewis, as well. But the you know, what the Bible teaches overall about humility is, it's not thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less. Right. And and so it's it's a more like and and what I find I have to do is I have to just remind myself on a regular basis of what what God says about me.

00;14;15;02 - 00;14;37;11
Chris
And to go back to that time and time again, this is something I say all the time. And, so maybe people are getting just like, okay, can you can you find something else to say? But it really is true, is that we have to meditate on and preach the gospel to ourselves. And the gospel isn't just that I'm, you know, I'm I'm saved and I'm going to heaven.

00;14;37;15 - 00;15;01;13
Chris
The gospel is also that God now loves me and accepts me and is pleased with me through faith in Jesus and to to remind ourselves that what, we maybe will naturally say to ourselves is that we're we're not worthy, that we're not valuable, that we have a natural contempt for ourselves, and we feel we live out of guilt and shame.

00;15;01;13 - 00;15;28;25
Chris
And so just going back to that, I also think that it's really important for us to have, if at all possible community, where we have other people who can encourage us in the right way, not towards high self esteem. Yeah. not just superiority, but but also, away from inferiority to help us to see ourselves the way that God has seen us.

00;15;28;25 - 00;16;01;29
Chris
And so the other thing that I would add, and this is getting, into to the weeds a little bit here, and may even be worthy of a further conversation on some other episode, but we all, from early on in life, begin to tell ourselves a story about who we are and, and and so and that is, impacted by the things done to us, the things done around us, the things done by us.

00;16;02;01 - 00;16;26;18
Chris
And that story we keep we we we tell that story over and over and over again to the point where it does get really, really hard to get out of the low self-esteem. And, and so what we, we need to learn to do is we need to learn to tell our story, more faithfully. And what I mean by that is more in line with what the Bible actually says.

00;16;26;19 - 00;16;53;09
Chris
And, you know, and, we have talked about before about the the God is telling a story, like, and the story is creation, fall, redemption, restoration. And so we are created, we're guy made everything good. And there's a lot of good about us. Even still, though, though, we're fallen second, put a story. We fall into sin. So now we're we're beautiful but we're broken.

00;16;53;11 - 00;17;19;04
Chris
Christ came to redeem us, to redeem the broken parts of us. And so that means that now we are living in God. in this, this time through faith in Christ, where, what we, our guilt and our shame and all of that is being redeemed. and ultimately the end of the story is Christ going to come back and we're going to be restored.

00;17;19;04 - 00;17;47;16
Chris
And so there is not going to be any high self-esteem or low self-esteem. It's just going to be the right kind. And we're going to fully, know him even as we we are known first, John chapter three. and so, I just, yeah. it's just learning to tell our stories biblically. And we oftentimes are going to need other people to help us to do that.

00;17;47;19 - 00;17;53;11
Chris
Yeah. I don't know if that resonates at all, but maybe open up a can of worms.

00;17;53;11 - 00;18;20;05
Brenton
It does. I, I think, you know, partly I think on both sides, you know, on the, on the low self-worth side, you, you make mountains out of, out of failures in your life. You kind of elevate these things and let those kind of define you. And I mean, the opposite is true on the other side of it. But I think that it's not.

00;18;20;05 - 00;18;48;16
Brenton
The answer isn't to just ignore the things that we are, not good at or, you know, things that that bother us about ourselves. But it's to put that in its proper context. Yeah. And to, you know, just accept that that's that's who we are right now. And we move on and we, all the while and preach the gospel to ourselves, knowing that none of those things affect our justification.

00;18;48;21 - 00;18;50;03
Brenton
Sure, sure. So.

00;18;50;08 - 00;19;19;10
Chris
Well, and and maybe this will be helpful. Think of, think of it this way. We need to pay attention to what we pay attention to. So. And let me explain. are we paying attention to Jesus or are we paying attention to ourselves? Hebrews 12 begins, you know, let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter, our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, despising the shame.

00;19;19;12 - 00;19;42;13
Chris
and and so fix our attention on him. That's the antidote to self-absorption, because, like, we're focus on me and what I, what's lacking in me, what's missing in me? what I think about feel about me and and and turn our eyes to Jesus and and notice he says, for the joy set before him. What was that joy?

00;19;42;15 - 00;20;25;07
Chris
Well, to quote another passage in Hebrews, it's to bring many sons to glory. It's it's his joy was our salvation. And if we were, are valuable enough that the Son of God would give his life and he would do it with joy, then leaning into that and paying attention to that, and having other people in our lives who help us to pay attention to that and who speaks like so, you know, like, if it was me and you and like me encouraging you and helping you to understand and to see what you are good at and what you have to contribute to the world and helping you to to really to begin

00;20;25;07 - 00;20;28;21
Chris
to retell your story for your first of all, for yourself.

00;20;28;26 - 00;20;30;11
Brenton
Yeah.

00;20;30;13 - 00;20;40;04
Chris
and, it can be hard to find people like that, but that's where we've got to be willing to be open and vulnerable and, and to to to look for it for sure.

00;20;40;06 - 00;21;04;13
Brenton
Yeah. And I think that's probably relevant to what I want to talk about now. So another thing you mentioned about pride is that it's often very hard to see it in ourselves. in fact, you said, quote, I've realized that my pride has led to or greatly contributed to almost all of the relational conflicts I have experienced, unquote.

00;21;04;16 - 00;21;18;09
Brenton
It seems to be, easier to look back and acknowledge it, you know, once it's already in the past. But why do you think that? It's it's a hard thing to diagnose in ourselves in the moment.

00;21;18;12 - 00;21;42;25
Chris
Well, for for one, I think we just really tend to react and instead of pausing and, acting, so this is our natural default. But, I mean, this is just how pride works. It's just we instantly are thinking about ourselves. Yeah. I mean, in in and it doesn't take us any effort at all. it's just there.

00;21;42;27 - 00;22;07;21
Chris
and so I yeah, we can sometimes look back and see, see, that's the case in more in the rearview mirror and just in the heart, because it's like we are our default mode, even as believers, is to like, what is this being? What's this doing to to me. And, how is this about me? How does this affect me?

00;22;07;21 - 00;22;36;02
Chris
Impact me? Why am I not getting to do that, that I deserve? and so, but again, I think that this is where the gospel is so important is that when, when I can actually have a good understanding of who I am in Christ, that, I mean, I think about the passage where Jesus says, come all ye who are weary, laden, and I will give you rest.

00;22;36;02 - 00;22;55;18
Chris
It's like when we come to him and when we we, we understand what he says about us and our relationship with him. Then we have rests for our souls. And when we have rest for our souls, then these things that would naturally prick our pride. I think they they'll prick our pride less quickly, right?

00;22;55;24 - 00;22;55;27
Brenton
Yeah.

00;22;56;02 - 00;23;24;17
Chris
Because, I mean, like, if I'm if my self-worth is bound up in what you say to me or how you are treating me, or are are things external to me, like then, I mean, my pride, just like there's going to be all kinds of opportunities throughout the day for my pride to light up. But if, if, if I aim my worth and value or internal and I don't mean like, like my own for for giving my my self, giving my own worth and value.

00;23;24;17 - 00;23;56;20
Chris
But internally, like internally in my relationship with the Lord that I I'm, I feel confident in him and what he says about me. Then if you, if you have a critical word about me, it still might like, get get at me a little bit, but I at least I have like, okay, no, I can I can not be such a have a quick temper and a quick fuze and a quick reaction and to be about make it about me.

00;23;56;22 - 00;24;20;08
Brenton
Yeah. And I think that that is, you know, a good long term thing to, to work toward. Right. But, you know, is there, is it possible for us to be able to get better at like, ooh, that was my pride. Like, is that, is that something that we can take steps to, to realize while it's happening.

00;24;20;11 - 00;24;23;19
Brenton
Yes. And take a step back and kind of realize that.

00;24;23;22 - 00;24;51;27
Chris
Yeah I think a great a great thing to do if you can just try to be aware, of how often your pride begins to get in the way, like it just, just being like, okay, I, I mean, this is a huge, huge issue because, I mean, I try to to bring out the Bible is really, really clear about, the dangers of pride.

00;24;51;27 - 00;25;16;13
Chris
And so it's something that we should give our attention to. So I talked about let's pay attention to what we're paying attention to. Let's pay attention to how much pride actually comes in to, the conversation. And I'm just talking about what we're talking about. But like, in, in our lives, how often are we reacting or at least beginning to react out of pride, and even just doing that will help us to to check that a little bit.

00;25;16;15 - 00;25;39;28
Chris
if I can give just one more, C.S. Lewis quote here, he's got a great chapter on, pride in humility in his classic book, Mere Christianity. So if you read one C.S. Lewis book and you should read more than one, remember Christianity, great book on, the Christian faith overall, but specifically there's a chapter on pride and humility.

00;25;39;28 - 00;25;57;02
Chris
He ends the chapter with it. He says, if anyone would like to acquire humility, I can. I think, tell in the first step. The first step is to realize that one is proud. And the biggest step to at least nothing ever can be done before it. if you think you're not conceited, it means you are very conceited indeed.

00;25;57;04 - 00;26;20;23
Chris
End of chapter. Maybe not, but, So again, admit that we are proud. Yeah. And and recognizing if we, you know, you talk about humility. Humility is such a hard thing to grasp. Because the moment you think that you're humble, you actually have just proved that you're not. It's kind of like something you you always have to continue to, to pursue.

00;26;20;26 - 00;27;05;28
Chris
for sure. But admitting that we're, we're, that we are proud. Since I am proud, let me pay attention to how often this comes up. And then I would say this. And again, this is a topic for for another time, although I alluded to it a little bit, on Sunday. it if we have most of the time we think of probably being a superior authority complex, and I would argue that everybody who has a superiority complex or who acts like they are superior is actually acting superior because they feel inferior and they're trying to compensate for it, and they're trying to to power, power up and, almost always are inferior

00;27;05;28 - 00;27;32;01
Chris
or complex inferiority complexes are tied to the fact that we feel shame. and so really honestly, I, again, being pretty deep here, but I think if we're going to deal with our pride issue, it's eventually going to lead us to our issue. A shame you go back to the garden, and Adam and Eve sinned, and they, they feel shame immediately.

00;27;32;03 - 00;27;52;16
Chris
And what do they do? They. They run and hide. They try to cover it, and then God comes. And what do they do? The pride comes. They start blaming God and each other and said, the serpent. And it's just immediately, I'm so, so they're feeling inferior. They're feeling shame. And what did they do to feel shame? They hide.

00;27;52;16 - 00;28;09;01
Chris
They cover themselves. And then they also power up. Yeah. And like, I'm. I'm better than this woman that you gave me. God, I'm even better than than you. Because I wouldn't have done what you just did. And on and on and on, you know? So that's, a lot, but.

00;28;09;04 - 00;28;33;05
Brenton
Yeah, that's good, I think. I think before we move on, just one more thing that in this probably will cause your pride to, jump up more than anything. But, you know, the people that that see your pride the most are the people that know you the most. And so I think that being open to to feedback, which is going to take humility.

00;28;33;07 - 00;28;34;11
Chris
Yeah.

00;28;34;13 - 00;29;00;14
Brenton
yeah. You know, with the, with the people that you love, with people that you trust, open yourself up for feedback. And I think, I think that'll be a helpful staff too. Just, just just realizing, you know, when, when that's coming out. All right. So to end this you summed up Heyman's problem as seeking honor and validation from the wrong person.

00;29;00;17 - 00;29;23;27
Brenton
He wanted to find value in his relationship with with Xerxes instead of the true God. I think we often do the same thing. We look to our parents, to our kids, to bosses or friends for validation. is seeking validation or approval from other people inherently bad?

00;29;24;00 - 00;29;50;25
Chris
Well, I think we were created to actually be validated. And, I would maybe not use necessarily approval or validation so much as acceptance. We were, we were we were certainly made to be accepted. And and, you know, Adam and Eve, I I'm sorry. Keep going back to the Genesis. But they were naked and unashamed, which means that they were completely vulnerable with one another.

00;29;50;25 - 00;30;09;21
Chris
But they didn't feel any shame because that they're completely accepted, with by one another. And so they they were completely open. I mean, like, everything was known, but they were completely accepted, but with one another. So there's there's there's no shame. And there's nothing to hide. I mean, it's there's a lot of different things there. So I think we we naturally.

00;30;09;21 - 00;30;38;13
Chris
Yeah. God creates us to, to, to receive that acceptance. Now we live in a fallen world. So we often don't get that acceptance. and then because of sin, we, we oftentimes seek it in the wrong way from, from the wrong place. And so we, we also now because of sin, and, and we don't have God's acceptance in us before Christ.

00;30;38;15 - 00;31;02;05
Chris
Okay. And so we with a natural desire for it and a natural need for it, we're going to look for it in the wrong, in the wrong place and in the wrong way. So we're going to promote ourselves and push ourselves forward and, and we're going to look for it. And, and parents and like you said, kids, bosses, friends, other things, other idols, money, sex, you know, success, power and all of those kind of things.

00;31;02;05 - 00;31;15;27
Chris
And so it's not it's not an inherently wrong thing. I think you were created for that. But now, because of sin, we we again look for it from the wrong places and in the wrong way.

00;31;16;00 - 00;31;42;09
Brenton
Yeah. So yeah, I, I think your, acceptance is is correct. I think that's a better word for that, but. So how, how can we balance that? You know, having a healthy amount of, you know, just looking for natural acceptance from people, but not finding our worth in that acceptance, still being able to be solid in what our worth is.

00;31;42;11 - 00;32;16;20
Chris
Well, that's a really great question. It's hard. I would maybe begin by one of the ways that we can balance it is actually by learning to be that for other people. In other words, if I can learn to accept, other people for, for who they are and I can show them love, and, that doesn't mean that I accept everything that somebody does.

00;32;16;23 - 00;32;46;15
Chris
as, as. Right. But it just is like, I, I care for you, I love you, and I'm going to show you grace without strings attached, like without you having to do something necessarily to to earn that. and that's the desperate need that the world has and that we need in the church is like to be that kind of a community where, again, that doesn't mean we approve of everything that people do or behavior that they do, where, you know, everything kind of goes.

00;32;46;15 - 00;33;32;12
Chris
But can we actually be at a place where, the first word and the last word is grace? and, so I want to begin there another way. I, I just have to keep going back to the gospel is like when I recognize that the God of the universe loves me and accepts me apart from anything that I do, and that I have inherent worth and value, then, it might hurt me, Brenton, that you are critical of me or that you, you know, don't want to be in relationship with me, but I, I can be okay, because ultimately, like, what you think and what you say about me doesn't matter.

00;33;32;15 - 00;34;01;16
Chris
it's not that. It's it's not that it might not hurt, but but ultimately, you're. What you say about me does not determine my value and worth, nor does it determine my eternity. And, I think learning to. To recognize that some very often. I mean, you say sometimes very often we actually let other people's opinions and other people's demeanor or relationship with us.

00;34;01;18 - 00;34;08;04
Chris
That's actually our God, that it holds more sway than what God says.

00;34;08;07 - 00;34;16;24
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah. Well that's certainly true. All right. Well yeah. Anything positive to end on here.

00;34;16;27 - 00;34;20;24
Chris
No. Well I.

00;34;20;26 - 00;34;52;06
Chris
Yeah I mean I think that there really is, there really is hope. I mean this is this is a struggle and I think the primary way we go wrong is by refusing to struggle and refusing to to lean in here and do the the work that's required to pay attention to what we are paying attention to. This fix our eyes on Jesus, to strive to live in a gospel centered community and, and, yeah, and and there is hope.

00;34;52;06 - 00;35;10;24
Chris
I mean, this is I mean, this is what the gospel is. The gospel is about resurrection. and so we are not stuck in, this place where we have to live with, with low self-esteem and, and there there can be freedom and healing from them.

00;35;10;26 - 00;35;32;23
Brenton
Looks good. yeah, I think we'll end on that. yeah. Thanks for listening. I, I'm sure there has to be some practical questions coming out of these conversations. So if you have them, send them in, ask it for their podcast.com. appreciate you listening. Preciate that. You Chris. And we will talk to you next week.

00;35;32;25 - 00;35;33;24
Chris
See you next week. I really.