00;00;13;02 - 00;00;42;21
Chris
That's why we got to know God's word and why theology really, truly does matter. Why I loved to preach God's Word and why I try to do it so passionately. Because it's not just facts or things that that don't really matter to the day to day program of our lives. They literally matter in everything we do, every environment we live, every relationship that we are in.

00;00;42;23 - 00;00;49;12
Brenton
And we're back. Welcome back to further. I'm Brennan Grimm. Chris, how are you doing?

00;00;49;14 - 00;00;51;21
Chris
Pretty good. It's, It's been a second.

00;00;51;21 - 00;01;04;12
Brenton
So it has. Yeah. Yeah, I won't, I won't lie, it's been it's been kind of nice to have my Tuesdays free, but we're excited to be back. how was your summer?

00;01;04;15 - 00;01;20;03
Chris
good. It went really fast. We didn't do, too much this summer. which is kind of nice. really didn't do much traveling or anything like that, so. Was good. It's good to be home and, really first, summers grandparents. So that was fun and interesting and. Yeah.

00;01;20;09 - 00;01;22;28
Brenton
Yeah. Not much traveling outside of your Albania trip, right?

00;01;22;29 - 00;01;24;06
Chris
Yeah, I guess I forgot.

00;01;24;07 - 00;01;25;14
Brenton
No big deal about that.

00;01;25;16 - 00;01;31;11
Chris
But, Yeah, I mean, that really was it, though, so, Yeah, it was, it was. It was good. How about you?

00;01;31;14 - 00;01;52;29
Brenton
Yeah, it was good. We we took, 1 or 2 trips. things kind of slow down for us in the summer, so that was nice. Kids kind of kept running through school, so, Good job, Nicky, and keeping that going when I wouldn't want to. Yeah. but, yeah, overall, it's been good. it's good to be back.

00;01;53;01 - 00;01;54;12
Brenton
getting into the swing of things again.

00;01;54;13 - 00;01;59;11
Chris
So now the weather, though, is not making us think the summer's over much today.

00;01;59;12 - 00;02;01;03
Brenton
It's beautiful, isn't it?

00;02;01;06 - 00;02;02;03
Chris
I don't know about that.

00;02;02;10 - 00;02;04;09
Brenton
Nobody likes this weather for me.

00;02;04;12 - 00;02;05;17
Chris
So. Yeah.

00;02;05;20 - 00;02;42;25
Brenton
All right, so we're starting, John. super excited about this. this series, I think it's going to be really good. Going to hit on a lot of important topics that are, foundational to to Christian belief. And so, let's start kind of high level, on this book. So in your sermon on Sunday, you, you begin at the end of the book and you, you said that John, states his goal there, for this book and it's that we would believe, that Jesus is the Son of God and that we would have life through that truth.

00;02;42;27 - 00;02;53;03
Brenton
And so it got me thinking. How would you say the the goal of this book differs from the other three gospels?

00;02;53;05 - 00;03;19;27
Chris
Yeah. I mean, I think it's it's similar. They're they're all similar is certainly, they're all the gospel of Jesus Christ and they're telling about, his person and his work. John is different than the other three. It's pretty clear. The other three are known as the synoptic Gospels because they're very similar. And there's various theories about how that came to be.

00;03;19;27 - 00;03;49;09
Chris
But, there would seem to be some similar information that they were all, kind of gathering from. And maybe Mark was the, the first one and then Luke and Matthew kind of build off of that material, different theories and all about that. But those three are very similar. And John just tells a very, I want to say it's not different, but it includes a lot of different material that we don't see in the other three.

00;03;49;11 - 00;04;11;15
Chris
but I think one way to look at it is the audiences that they were writing to. So, so, you know, Matthew is writing to primarily to Jews. and so and he's got a big emphasis on the kingdom of God and, a lot of Old Testament connections there. Mark is writing to the Romans to, to, to to like leaders.

00;04;11;17 - 00;04;28;02
Chris
so Mark is very short, kind of pithy, you know, it's like a lot of action because leaders called to act, you know, so he's he's trying to relate to them. But Mark's really you know, he the story is that Mark tells you, you see a lot of those in Matthew and Luke, but Matthew and Luke expand on them.

00;04;28;02 - 00;04;54;17
Chris
And Mark's just trying to, you know, again, he's speaking to the the Romans, people who are in leadership and trying to connect with them. Luke is writing The Greeks. and so he talks a lot about truth because the, the, you know, the Greeks are, very passionate about the pursuit of truth. And so, yeah, he's really loved the beautiful kind of story that, that he weaves, there.

00;04;54;19 - 00;05;25;24
Chris
and that, of course, was appealing to Greeks, to the, the beauty aspect of it. John is writing like to all of these three groups is writing to everybody. and so he's, he, he's more of, he's known as the evangelist. So he, he has more of a, I would say a singular focus, which he points us to directly here is I want you to know who Jesus is and what Jesus did so that you you will believe and and like you said, and have life in his name.

00;05;25;24 - 00;05;51;12
Chris
And I think the other three authors maybe have a broader scope and, and John's kind of more kind of narrowly focused. And John's probably written 20 to 30 years after the other three. and so I think he and the church, things have changed for the church, you know, all the other apostles are gone. He's kind of the last that original voice that that is there.

00;05;51;20 - 00;06;12;26
Chris
He's kind of the father had a little bit of the patriarch. And so he's looking, I think, and he's looking at what's going on, and he's saying, you know, there's a lack of clarity seeming to be with, with the, with people about like, who, who is Jesus like that? And maybe I put it this way, the other three tend to focus more on the humanity of Jesus.

00;06;12;26 - 00;06;36;14
Chris
And John's going to focus on the deity of Jesus. And I think that that's because the the challenge in his day, we're talking about the late first century is, is not whether so much or whether Jesus was human. I think it was generally accepted. But but the question was, was, was he also God? Was he divine? And so that's John's, he certainly addresses the humanity of Jesus.

00;06;36;14 - 00;06;40;18
Chris
We're going to see that. But it's very, very clear from the opening that he wants us to see that.

00;06;40;18 - 00;06;41;05
Brenton
Yeah, yeah.

00;06;41;11 - 00;06;41;27
Chris
So.

00;06;41;29 - 00;06;59;02
Brenton
Yeah, it seems like John is kind of a go to for so many references to, you know, theological topics, whereas the other three are, are more narrative. I mean, not that this isn't narrative, but there's so much extra truth in here that, yeah, it's just so theologically deep.

00;06;59;05 - 00;07;19;05
Chris
I think we find more really, it's more focused on the, the, the, the teaching of Jesus. And, which certainly, you know, there's a whole 13 through 17 that's just dedicated to what's known as the upper room discourse. And, he's teaching his disciples and some of the most powerful teaching in the entire Bible is found there.

00;07;19;07 - 00;07;32;16
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. And even, you know, how John starts out with this Prolog is is different than the, the other three, right? So it starts out in this incredibly deep, prolog about who Jesus is going back all the way to creation. Right.

00;07;32;17 - 00;07;56;09
Chris
So yeah, the the other three, you know, Matthew begins with the genealogy. She, Luke begins with the birth, essentially, of John the Baptist, and then Jesus and Mark begins just right off the like, hey, we're getting into it. And John goes, it's interesting. And he's like, okay, I'm going all the way that they're talking about the beginning of Jesus's life.

00;07;56;09 - 00;08;00;18
Chris
I'm going all the way back to the beginning of everything.

00;08;00;20 - 00;08;28;16
Brenton
Yeah. Good. okay. So you talked briefly about how how critical Christ divinity is to Christian theology in general. your main point was that since he claimed to be God, if he isn't, that would make him a liar. And, and so, obviously we we would have a problem with, with God being a liar. and if he is a liar, then he's probably not God.

00;08;28;16 - 00;08;46;00
Brenton
And so, I want to know in what other ways with this affect our theology, or to maybe put it another way of Jesus was, say, still sinless, but simply a man created by the father. What would this do to our soteriology or our salvation?

00;08;46;02 - 00;09;12;15
Chris
Yeah. I mean, we can talk about this a long time. I think maybe I would just focus in on one thing first. First John, I'm sorry. First Timothy. two five. There's one mediator between God and man. The man Christ Jesus. and we we need a, a mediator that, can is Peter talks about first Peter three bring us back to God.

00;09;12;17 - 00;09;48;14
Chris
make peace with God between us, reconcile us. And I think Paul tells us there in first Timothy two that that, mediator has to be both God and man. And so, because of sin and what sin is, done to break our relationship with God? only someone who was both God and man could actually be the mediator, could represent both sides.

00;09;48;16 - 00;10;12;04
Chris
and, you know, you want in a mediator needs to be someone who can both mediate between the two sides and, and, can, can bring them together. And so I think that that is the, the, the clearest, just example of why the divinity of Jesus is so important.

00;10;12;05 - 00;10;35;23
Brenton
Okay. Yeah. I mean, we we see prototypes of Jesus all throughout the Old Testament, right? All of these men who kind of were a foreshadowing of Christ, obviously not sinless. I don't think we could find one example there of someone. Right, that was sinless. But but still kind of fulfilled that role. But none of them were obviously God.

00;10;35;28 - 00;10;36;26
Brenton
And so yeah.

00;10;37;02 - 00;11;00;22
Chris
Yeah. So that I mean and and so if again, if Jesus wasn't God, then he, he, he wasn't able to, to, to do what was necessary to secure our salvation. and so, yeah, that's ultimately the bottom line of it. So.

00;11;00;25 - 00;11;25;18
Brenton
Okay. Good. how should the truths in John one influence the way we read the Old Testament? So, for example, you know, I don't know that when we think of creation, our maybe I'll speak for myself. I don't know that throughout the time I've been a Christian, if I think of who the creator is, I think of Jesus.

00;11;25;18 - 00;11;50;15
Brenton
Right. Usually that's something that's attributed to, to the father. at least, you know, naturally in my mind. And so this has been a good reminder of me that, you know, who who the the driving force of this was. But, where do we see the son, the the second person of the Trinity acting in, in Scripture before his incarnation?

00;11;50;15 - 00;11;52;19
Brenton
Are there other examples of this?

00;11;52;21 - 00;12;13;26
Chris
Sure. so there are who we would call Aristophanes in the Old Testament, and that is where, what makes back there are Theophany, and then Kristoff and his and and the Kristoff. And these are Theophany, but not all of the Theophany Circus. Avanti! So big terms. Everybody's like, what in the world are you talking about?

00;12;14;03 - 00;12;15;24
Brenton
Theophany and you still this for us.

00;12;15;24 - 00;12;57;29
Chris
Is basically where God appears in some, form in the Old Testament. Okay, so in the burning bush, that's, that's a theophany. God's appearing there and in, in in the burning bush. and then there are, Kristoff and EES where we actually see Jesus appearing in human form in the Old Testament. and there there are a number of these, one would be Genesis 818, where there's three, men who appear to, to Abraham, and one of them is called the Lord.

00;12;58;01 - 00;13;22;23
Chris
So it's a man called the Lord. and, it's a really interesting story. Where where, the Lord Jesus, tells Abraham that he's Sarah is going to have a child. This is really kind of a funny story, by the way. So you series sometime because, the these three men are meeting with Abraham and Sarah's in the tent, listening.

00;13;22;28 - 00;13;41;26
Chris
She's like, at the door, at the tent, listening, listening. And when, the Lord tells Abraham that she's going to be pregnant, she laughs. And then, he calls her out, says she laughed and she said, I didn't laugh. She's like arguing with the with the Lord. There's a fascinating story, but, there is another story to there.

00;13;41;26 - 00;14;11;24
Chris
Where, where I don't think it's, a Crisafulli, but a theophany to where God appears to Abraham and and walks through the sacrifice. and he's making the covenant with Abraham. And, so there's another story. I probably maybe the one that's most well known. Christoph. And he is, in Daniel three, where Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are in the fire, and there's another man in the fire with them.

00;14;11;24 - 00;14;38;23
Chris
And, pretty much, you know, consistent, agreed upon position is that that's Jesus actually in, in, in the fire with them. And, there's there's numerous other Christoph and he's that we, we see two the angel of After Time is called the angel of the Lord. And that angel, Lord in is believed to be that he is.

00;14;38;26 - 00;14;41;18
Chris
He is Jesus. So.

00;14;41;20 - 00;15;09;07
Brenton
So I want to talk a little bit about, the reference to Jesus in John one. He he calls him the word Is there other places in the Old Testament that that he's referred to as the word? I know? You know, I was looking at Psalm 33, so four no, 33 six, or it says by the word of the Lord, the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their hosts.

00;15;09;09 - 00;15;24;13
Brenton
Is is that a reference to Jesus there? what? I know you spent some time on this on Sunday of, you know, the word logos and what, what that means. But do you have any more to expand on that?

00;15;24;15 - 00;15;56;17
Chris
Yeah, this is a pretty, deep topic that I'm not, sure that I'm the the expert on by any stretch of the imagination, but I how I would currently understand it is that. Yeah, Jesus is the the word of the Lord and that, you know, as we saw from Hebrews one in Colossians chapter one, God created the world through him.

00;15;56;19 - 00;16;28;09
Chris
and he sustains the world through him. my understanding would be that God is speaking and then he he's speaking what will be. And the son, by his power, is making it to be somehow. And there's a lot of mystery in that. you know, Proverbs talks a lot about wisdom. and that's a common theme with wisdom God created.

00;16;28;11 - 00;17;01;22
Chris
And I think Christ is God's wisdom. Interesting. You know, that's the theme. You know, Proverbs, we hear that word wisdom and wisdom and there's, you know, there's lady wisdom and lady follower and lady wisdom would be the way of Christ, I believe. so, yeah, I mean, it's an interesting thing to to think about, but I do think, practically speaking, it's something for us to just to recognize, the relationship between the father and the son is, is a very close one.

00;17;01;24 - 00;17;27;01
Chris
the they are always in lockstep with one another. And what's happening in the world, both in eternity past and in the present, and certainly will be in, in, in eternity in the future as well. But Jesus is actively present and always has been actively present in what's happening in the world and bringing to bear the father's desire in the father's plan.

00;17;27;04 - 00;17;43;06
Brenton
Yeah. And I think that's a general truth with with the Trinity. You know, we're going to get into that next. But just that, you know, the father wills, the father decrees, and, and we see the son carrying out his, his decree. A lot of times.

00;17;43;13 - 00;18;11;21
Chris
So yeah for sure. Yeah. So an interesting topic to think about. I just to encourage everyone to just see there's much more maybe going on with Jesus than we are maybe used to. And John's trying to, to point that out. He's, he's like I talked about on Sunday. He's bigger than we think that he is. And, greater, greater than we we realize.

00;18;11;28 - 00;18;46;27
Brenton
Yeah. Okay. So one topic that is likely going to continually come up in the study of John is the Trinity. And I want to start just off the bat here in this first week, by introducing this doctrine. And then discussing some of its implications. We're not going to go real deep today. but I think it's it's good to have kind of a baseline of, of what it is and how, how it affects our theology.

00;18;46;27 - 00;18;55;09
Brenton
And so can you give, a definition of the Trinity?

00;18;55;12 - 00;18;55;28
Chris
Sure.

00;18;55;28 - 00;18;58;08
Brenton
And if you'd like to use water and ice and.

00;18;58;08 - 00;19;13;16
Chris
No, I don't personally, I don't like to use analogies because they all ultimately fail and can end up confusing us. so I've heard, many of them and some of them are really good efforts.

00;19;13;19 - 00;19;15;29
Brenton
I kind of like the fidget spinner one. You like that one?

00;19;16;01 - 00;19;20;25
Chris
And to know why I have, I'm not sure that I've heard it. What's the fidget spinner? Well, you.

00;19;20;25 - 00;19;26;00
Brenton
Got you got three, three little things. Yeah. Right. And then when it's spinning, it looks like one.

00;19;26;00 - 00;20;00;23
Chris
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, maybe a little bit helpful, but, I, I have for, for, for many years appreciated. Wayne Gruden's definition, I think it's, relatively concise and pretty clear. maybe is is the best that I found. So, the Trinity is, the reality that there is one God, in three persons, and each of those three persons is fully God.

00;20;00;26 - 00;20;27;06
Chris
So one, one guy God is one. but God is also three persons, father, son and spirit. And each of those persons is fully God. God the father is fully God. God the son is fully guy. God the spirit is fully God. And you may listen to that definition and say, that doesn't make sense. And and if you're saying that, I would agree, humanly speaking, how exactly does that work?

00;20;27;06 - 00;20;53;02
Chris
But here's where we have to start with to start with what does the Bible say? And this is something that the early church we can be really thankful for because they did a lot of hard work to discern. What does the Bible teach about the the Trinity took hundreds of hundreds of years, for them to, clearly, you know, spell out what the Bible teaches.

00;20;53;02 - 00;21;12;16
Chris
And I think through them it captures that there's there's only one God, that God exists in three persons. father, son and spirit. And each of those three persons is is fully God. Okay. So that's that's the best that I can do, at least at this point.

00;21;12;16 - 00;21;39;10
Brenton
Yeah. Good. So what, what are the alternative views of that? I mean, you know, we, I think, a lot of times, especially from the, like, Islam perspective, they would see Trinitarian as polytheists. Right? And so that's not at all what we're saying. We we would affirm monotheism, that there's only one God. There's only one being who is God.

00;21;39;12 - 00;21;43;18
Brenton
what are some alternative views of of this. Sure.

00;21;43;21 - 00;22;19;03
Chris
So, there I, a bunch of them, there is that tri theism, which is a kind of like polytheism that they're they're all three independent means holy, Holy Spirit, father, son. and they're basically three separate gods, but they have the same substance. and, it can be easily that this is, you know, something that even true believers can, can easily slip into again and, and think that way, that they are independent.

00;22;19;05 - 00;22;46;18
Chris
you know, there's, they're separate and, and, that would certainly not fit in line with what the definition I gave in what the New Testament teaches. Arianism was a big, a big, big error, in early on. In fact, that's, a lot of the controversy in the early centuries that led to the Council of Nicaea, where the the doctrine of the Trinity was first fully kind of laid out.

00;22;46;21 - 00;23;09;02
Chris
it came from a guy named Arius and, basically that said that Jesus was the first and greatest of God's creatures, but he wasn't, fully divine. and so, you know, I even read Colossians one where it says that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. And so that's kind of easy to see where maybe people could come there.

00;23;09;02 - 00;23;46;28
Chris
But it's not talking about him being created. It's like he was the, the first, the, the highest place, you know, and so but not, not a created being. there's dose autism. So we're getting into some terms here, but that, that Jesus was, purely divine being who only had the appearance of being human, you know, and there, there are versions of that we say, or that that Jesus is the divinity left him on the cross, you know, before he died on the cross.

00;23;46;28 - 00;24;18;12
Chris
So he was divine all the way up until the cross. But there so but does it isn't all of them somehow denied that Jesus was was both fully God and fully, fully human? So there's there's a variety, is there there's adoption ism, where, so this says that Jesus was born totally human and later adopted by the father and, either at his baptism or like, his resurrection, and he's adopted in a special way.

00;24;18;12 - 00;24;38;13
Chris
So he became divine. and, that's a fairly, fairly common one, too. Probably the one with the most to say to our day is would be modal ism. And, so this may be, all these other things like, okay, making it lost in this is it would be one, I think, for all of us to be, be aware of.

00;24;38;14 - 00;25;10;01
Chris
And basically that is, the position that, there is father son in spirit. But they, they appear in different modes, so, so he would only ever be either be the father or the son or the Holy Spirit, not the three at the same time. and so, they're not distinct, they're just different modes. And so this was, what would be the position of like the United Pentecostal Church?

00;25;10;04 - 00;25;35;08
Chris
and I just will call out some, maybe a name here. T.D. Jakes is, is a is a part of that church. So he, subscribes like at least that his church does to, a heretical view of the Trinity. maybe more in popular, culture. there's a there's a book in a movie called The Shack that came out years ago.

00;25;35;08 - 00;25;45;11
Chris
And we see that's modal ism. We see Jesus appearing in and, you know, I forget exactly who was what one was a woman.

00;25;45;14 - 00;25;48;01
Brenton
I remember the outrage. I never I never did the book.

00;25;48;08 - 00;26;13;13
Chris
Yeah. it's, I've read the book. It's a well-written book, fascinating story, but it and and so potentially you can get kind of lost. And actually, what is it saying about God and, so some real issues. But one of the issues is, is that we see this modal ism that that God is appearing to the the main character in the book, but he's a he's appearing in different, different forms.

00;26;13;13 - 00;26;34;05
Chris
Father is this the spirit? Is this, Jesus is this. But, the view is basically that is it's just a different mode. And, they're, they're not actually different distinct personalities and, and different persons, in one. So, yeah. Anyway.

00;26;34;08 - 00;26;59;24
Brenton
Okay. What so what other religions, like mainline religions do we have currently that would that would think differently from this. But you know, you have Catholicism who would agree with us on on the Trinity. We would have any any difference there. but then, you know, Mormonism obviously sees Jesus as Satan's brother. And so.

00;26;59;29 - 00;27;18;06
Chris
Yeah, it's crazy, going on, it's like it's just. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he would be a, as I understand it, essentially what I would call a a demigod. He's he's not fully divine. He's he's a special being in some way.

00;27;18;09 - 00;27;24;25
Brenton
Yeah. But yeah. And then, you know, Islam is, is monotheists but not Trinitarian. Sure.

00;27;24;27 - 00;27;29;23
Chris
and they, they would say that Jesus was a person.

00;27;29;26 - 00;27;30;26
Brenton
Sure.

00;27;30;28 - 00;27;43;16
Chris
they would be probably the prophet. Yeah. But not he was not not God. And and, I think they even say that he didn't actually die. He didn't die on the cross. And so but yeah.

00;27;43;18 - 00;28;15;26
Brenton
Okay. And then, you know, like one on one this Pentecostals like you brought up earlier. so all that to say, there are these these heresies are not dead. They've, they've been around for, since since Jesus. And, they continue to, to hold on. And so I guess why why would you say it's so foundational to us to have a correct biblical view of, of the Trinity?

00;28;15;29 - 00;28;43;23
Chris
Well, I do think it goes back, fundamentally to this is what, the Bible teaches, about Jesus. so that there's that, and so we wouldn't want to deny anything that the Bible clearly teaches, and the Bible clearly teaches this. And, been, the most important topic of all. So there's that, again, I talked about how Jesus claimed to be God.

00;28;43;23 - 00;29;05;01
Chris
And and I think it can get lost about how central that is. and these I called out the names, you know, I think a Bart Ehrman, which a lot of people who don't know who he is, but he's a professor at the University of North Carolina, and he's a very staunch, adversary of this idea, baby.

00;29;05;04 - 00;29;28;19
Chris
New Testament scholar. Yeah. And he doesn't a scholar, well-respected in many circles and just this idea that the church basically created, this idea that Jesus was, was divine, like, Jesus. He just he was just he says Jesus never claimed to be divine. It's just I don't know why people fall for it. because, Jesus, that is why they they crucified him.

00;29;28;19 - 00;29;53;16
Chris
It's like, me being we'll see this in John. He's like you. They say, you a man. Why are you you know, why are you going at me? Basically, you say so because you a man claiming to be God. And so I, the father of one. And so it this is the essential claim of Christianity. And I think we get lost in that, is that the central claim of Christianity is that God has to become a man.

00;29;53;20 - 00;30;14;18
Chris
Yeah. And, he's become a man to save us from our sins. And there's only salvation in his name. And we're even going to see this week. Is that, they came, he came to his own, and they did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, he gave them who who believed in his name. It's going to be really important not to preach this week's message yet.

00;30;14;18 - 00;30;39;07
Chris
But believing in his name means believing in who he is, who we claim to be. and then ultimately, we already talked about this is that he had to be God in order to secure our salvation. And so it's it's it literally cannot be overstated how important and how essential this is, that Jesus is our Savior. And and all Christians readily affirm that.

00;30;39;07 - 00;30;58;09
Chris
But but we need to peer under the hood a little bit deeper to see that there's, there's there's deeper truths that we need to to grasp and hold on to because him being our Savior is, and necessitates that he be be God in flesh.

00;30;58;10 - 00;31;31;17
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. And obviously, you know, Christ's divinity is is central to this. But even to have, the, the, belief of salvation that we do, the biblical belief of salvation, we have to in necessitates the Trinity. Right. Because you have each one of the persons of the Trinity are acting in our salvation. We see, we see the father decree, the son is sent and dies, and then the spirit is who effectually calls us to that right.

00;31;31;19 - 00;31;40;12
Brenton
And so without without one of those, persons acting in the Trinity, we don't have the salvation that we claim to have.

00;31;40;14 - 00;32;04;28
Chris
Yeah. And we actually see that in John one in our passage, you know, last week and then this week, what you just laid out there, the father decrees our salvation, the son accomplishes our salvation, and the Holy Spirit applies it to us. we're born not of flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And John three is going to tell us, Jesus going to tell Sarah, it's the Holy Spirit who's his, who's doing that.

00;32;04;28 - 00;32;16;26
Chris
So we receive him, but we receive him because the Holy Spirit, opens our eyes, takes the light of Christ, shines in our hearts so that we see the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Yeah.

00;32;16;28 - 00;32;41;29
Brenton
Good. Okay. I want to hit two more things. So where would you go? biblically, to defend the Trinity. I know there's, you know, there's places that that people would go, that aren't necessarily the best, you know, first, John five seven is is thrown out a lot. but, you know, this isn't a proof text kind of thing.

00;32;41;29 - 00;32;56;02
Brenton
Like, it's a, it's an all of scripture thing where we need to bring parts together to get this doctrine, which is why, you know, there were so many councils around to, you know, to, to put this all together, but where are some spots that you could go? Yeah.

00;32;56;04 - 00;33;16;22
Chris
just run through a few real quick. I think, and I think you what you're talking about here is we've got a it's not just a one place is like because, yeah, there's nowhere in the Bible where it says the word trinity, right. so I think we started at the beginning, John. That's one, Genesis one, the Spirit of God is hovering over the waters.

00;33;16;22 - 00;33;42;29
Chris
And then God says, let us make let us make man in our image. So it's very clear that it's more than there's a plurality here. and, we see this spirit throughout the, the Old Testament, the Spirit of God. And Cyril is clearly see the father. And then we see this angel of the Lord in this, this kind of human appearing.

00;33;42;29 - 00;34;05;24
Chris
So we can kind of get a glimpse of it. I think our passage here, John one and then what I just talked about with John three, and you put that together, and then Jesus and John 14, 15 and 16 is going to take a whole lot about the spirit, the father and the spirit. So that's a the like those passages are really, really key when you start seeing, you know, the connections there.

00;34;05;24 - 00;34;16;02
Chris
And a lot of our Trinitarian theology comes from John 14 through 16, and maybe the clearest place in all the Bible is Jesus's baptism.

00;34;16;02 - 00;34;17;15
Brenton
Yeah, that's what I was going to.

00;34;17;17 - 00;34;29;13
Chris
where we see the father and obviously Jesus is there. And then the spirit descending like a like a dove. And so you can see all three of them there, which.

00;34;29;13 - 00;34;37;21
Brenton
Jesus baptism is a is a perfect push back to modal ism as well, because we see all three of the persons at the same time in the same place.

00;34;37;23 - 00;35;05;06
Chris
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, those those would be the key. And then I, I would also go to Romans one and Paul starts it out or it says this is, you know, the gospel concerning his son, who was descended from David Accord in the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God and power according to the spirit of holiness.

00;35;05;09 - 00;35;22;00
Chris
So born in the flesh, declared to be the Son of God according to the spirit of holiness and so, yeah, it's like it's it's it's pretty clear, like we had all three of them there.

00;35;22;02 - 00;35;28;19
Brenton
Well, and you're what you said earlier is definitely right. We have many people that have come before us to do a lot of the heavy lifting.

00;35;28;21 - 00;35;29;07
Chris
On.

00;35;29;09 - 00;35;55;24
Brenton
Some of this stuff. And so to have those, those counsels and to to know the church history on that is really invaluable in this topic. okay. The last thing I want to talk about is verse one says the word was with God and the word was God. we've discussed the second part of this, that the word was God, that Jesus is God.

00;35;55;26 - 00;36;08;28
Brenton
but the first part says the word was with God is, I guess maybe I'll leave this open ended. What you think this is telling us about the Trinity?

00;36;09;00 - 00;36;44;13
Chris
I think it's it's pointing to the fact that the members of the Trinity have lived in a close community, close relationship of intimacy, for forever. That's just the way that that they that they exist and that, there's a deeper relationship of love. And it's pointing us to the fact that out of that love, they created, they created the world and they created human beings.

00;36;44;15 - 00;37;07;17
Chris
And so, I think the biggest implication for us here is if the members of the Trinity live in close community with one another, close relation or intimacy and love, maybe love is the defining feature of their relationship. and we see very clearly that the father is Jesus is going to talk about this all over the place.

00;37;07;17 - 00;37;26;14
Chris
And John the father loves the father. He loves the father means. Yeah, especially to towards, you know, 13 or 17. Again, we'll get into that. it's hard to tell, by the way, how long 13 to 17 is going to say this is to get through, but it's going to be great. but there's love. But if we are made in God's image, what that means is we were made for relationship.

00;37;26;14 - 00;37;55;19
Chris
And we were made, made for love. To give love and to experience love not only with God himself, for sure, but with with other, with other people. and this has been very important for me in my growth, over the last several years, is to recognize that, even though I can resist that kind of connection, that's that's truly what I was made to, to experience with God and with others.

00;37;55;19 - 00;38;18;06
Chris
And of course, the greatest commandment Matthew 22 love the Lord your God with everything you are, and love your neighbor as yourself. That's never yeah, Jesus, the prophets hang on everything. The law of the prophets, all of it hangs on this love. and so I think, see, you know, Jesus was with God. That word with is much deeper than.

00;38;18;07 - 00;38;42;13
Chris
Yeah. And they were just hanging out, right? Right. Hey, is with him. No. Like that with me is like like he was with, like, is with their they they and it's hard I think for us to to understand but maybe just a little bit. You take the relationship the closest, the deepest relationship that you have, how you are with that person and magnify that.

00;38;42;15 - 00;39;10;06
Chris
No, no. How many times, million times. And that's, that's the depth. And to think about what that relationship with that person would be, that you have without any sin, you know, or baggage on your part or on their part, and there's nothing to get into, you know, hurt feelings or hurt or whatever. It's just none of that. It's just pure joy and being in that person's presence all the time.

00;39;10;09 - 00;39;32;21
Chris
that's what it was. And that's what we are created for, and that's what. And here's the hope of heaven. That's what we're going to get to experience someday. and, it's we can't even really fathom. It's impossible to fathom relationship with someone where there's no conflict or difficulty. Sure. Even when the in the best of in the best of relationships.

00;39;32;22 - 00;39;33;11
Chris
Yeah.

00;39;33;13 - 00;39;55;02
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. So you know as as image bearers of of God, we should seek to, to mirror that. Right. We should. Yeah. We should. That should be a, an effort of ours to have, good relationships with people. So love should be a defining characteristic.

00;39;55;07 - 00;40;23;25
Chris
Yeah. So I just. Oh, and this is I think what that with can point is to is that God the Father, God the son, God the Holy sort are always moving towards one another, moving towards one another in love. And that's what we should seek to model, is to move towards people in love. It's hard. We, you know, we're some people are more naturally inclined to that.

00;40;23;27 - 00;40;46;16
Chris
but we're all designed for that. And if if that's not where we're headed, then, I mean, again, this has been a big thing for me is recognizing, like, I, I resisted that and that meant there's something that needed to honestly to be fixed in me of of, having that desire and experiencing more of a moving towards people and.

00;40;46;16 - 00;41;02;02
Brenton
Love and moving toward people while in conflict. Right. which is something that, you know, the the Trinity doesn't have conflict. But we also see God continually moving toward us who do have conflict with. Yeah, right.

00;41;02;02 - 00;41;24;14
Chris
Yeah. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. And, you know, I would also I know I said it's going to be down, but I just said one final thing. what I found that I've needed to do is to seek out people who, will move toward me. So it's not simply moving toward people.

00;41;24;14 - 00;41;35;28
Chris
Yes. But also people who are going to return that even when I maybe resisted. Yeah.

00;41;36;00 - 00;41;57;16
Brenton
Good. one more I want to I want to share a resource before we end this one. I've been reading through a book called The Forgotten Trinity. and it's been really helpful to, to think through the Trinity. And so the books by James White, and he actually devotes an entire chapter just to the prolog of John.

00;41;57;19 - 00;42;06;23
Brenton
really helpful. And I'd suggest you guys, check that out. and we went a little long today, but what do you expect? We haven't talked at all.

00;42;06;26 - 00;42;08;22
Chris
So lots of talk about hints.

00;42;08;23 - 00;42;24;16
Brenton
Right. Well, it's good to be back. as always, please send questions in. I know you have some, ask at further podcast.com, and we will do our best to reply to those. but yeah, appreciate you guys listening and we'll be back next week.