00;00;13;02 - 00;00;42;14
Chris
That's why we've got to know God's Word and why theology really, truly does matter. Why I loved to preach God's Word and why I try to do it so passionately. Because it's not just facts or things that that don't really matter to the day to day program of our lives. They literally matter in everything we do, every environment we live, every relationship that we are in.

00;00;42;16 - 00;00;47;20
Brenton
Welcome back to further. I'm Brenton Grim. Chris, how are you doing today?

00;00;47;23 - 00;00;51;17
Chris
Pretty good. Yeah. Looking forward to this. Conversation.

00;00;51;20 - 00;01;09;09
Brenton
Yeah, it'll be good. It was kind of funny coming out of your sermon. We're also coming off a birthday week. We have we have two kids that are born on the same day, actually. Wow. And so, yeah, my wife is a big believer in birthday week. So we did a lot of things.

00;01;09;11 - 00;01;11;11
Chris
So which to.

00;01;11;13 - 00;01;16;27
Brenton
My oldest and youngest sister, Cameron. Yeah. So exciting times for them.

00;01;16;28 - 00;01;21;01
Chris
Did they complain about that? You know, having to share. Yeah. They will. It's coming or.

00;01;21;02 - 00;01;23;06
Brenton
Yeah. Stephanie's pretty gracious right now.

00;01;23;07 - 00;01;28;01
Chris
Yeah. Yeah. He's a sweet kid. I actually had a good interaction with him on Sunday.

00;01;28;01 - 00;01;29;23
Brenton
So he was.

00;01;29;25 - 00;01;35;03
Chris
Working on the production team and he was showing me his, badge that he was wearing his nametag there.

00;01;35;03 - 00;02;08;12
Brenton
So pretty proud of it. Yeah. All right, so today, you know, you you spent most of your sermon, talking about the doctrine of adoption. And I'd like to continue this, continue that in this episode. I guess to right off the bat, you know, this this is a very important part of, you know, doctrine of our salvation that I think maybe doesn't get talked about as much as it could or maybe should.

00;02;08;14 - 00;02;11;23
Brenton
What's your opinion of that? Have you have you noticed that?

00;02;11;25 - 00;02;35;05
Chris
Yeah. I think so. I, I think it, gets lost on us a lot. So we are, maybe more familiar with justification, and, I mean, maybe I've been back up. We tend to just think about salvation, and that's the kind of the extent we're saved from our sins, and maybe from God's wrath. And we we're going to heaven.

00;02;35;05 - 00;03;07;24
Chris
And, there is, so much more than that. We saw a lot of that in, Romans. But we also saw adoption. It might have been easy to, to to miss that. Yeah. But it's a big part there in Romans chapter eight. And so for sure, I don't think it gets the attention it deserves. And maybe this was obvious on Sunday, but, being an adoptive father, that's I've learned, a lot more about it, in the last 11 plus years than I than I really gave attention to it before then.

00;03;07;25 - 00;03;16;07
Brenton
Yeah. Believe that. Okay, so let's just start out with a refresher. So can I just ask, what is the doctrine of adoption?

00;03;16;09 - 00;03;39;25
Chris
Sure. I'll I'll try to be succinct here. It's actually, a pretty, detailed, doctrine worthy of a lot of study. We can talk about it quite a while, but, it truly is like one of the primary benefits of our salvation. And it's, you know, in justification, God, declares us not guilty of all the charges that could be, made against us.

00;03;39;25 - 00;04;04;27
Chris
And, accepts us into a relationship with him again. And that accepting us into a relationship with him again is where adoption comes in. Where he he makes us his children. So we're justified believers. And a part of being justified means that now we are restored to a relationship with God. And that relationship is as our father. It's a father son, father daughter, relationship.

00;04;04;27 - 00;04;46;02
Chris
And so, like justification. And so once for all, early declarative act of God. I pointed out that that word right that we see there in our text in John, he gave the right to become children of God. That's a legal term. And so when we adopt as a Zoe, we, had to go before, it wasn't really technically a judge because we were in a foreign country, but essentially, someone acting as a judge, and they declared now that they were full children of Christian, either car, or girl in a car, as my legal team.

00;04;46;02 - 00;04;46;23
Brenton
Everybody knows.

00;04;46;23 - 00;05;17;29
Chris
That. But if you adopt a child here in, the state of Iowa, you're going to literally go before a judge and they're going to declare, legally that that child is now your your child with all the rights that are entailed by that. And so, and, God's adoption of us, like justification is a once for all, not unrepeatable act of God, which means that we once we are his children, we are always his children.

00;05;17;29 - 00;05;46;04
Chris
And we actually see in this doctrine, what what, is known as the security of the believer. Or maybe that are said, we see, that, God is going to preserve us as his children, and he's going to preserve us through preserving us in our, adoption justification and salvation. And then the New Testament actually talks quite a bit about how now we become heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ.

00;05;46;11 - 00;06;21;17
Chris
And, and so there's a lot that, that, entails. I talked about those some of those things really briefly. But one day that means we're going to inherit the Earth, which means we're going to rule and reign with Jesus. And our father here on a new, renewed, recreated earth. And so it's a lot of things that, that go into this and really, if you think about it, and we really understand that it is in many ways that the definition of what it means to be a believer is to be a child of God.

00;06;21;20 - 00;06;23;11
Chris
So. Yeah. Yeah.

00;06;23;13 - 00;06;35;00
Brenton
Okay. Would it, would it be fair to say that adoption is kind of the outflowing of, of our justification? It's it's kind of a practical. I.

00;06;35;00 - 00;06;35;26
Chris
Think it's the result.

00;06;36;01 - 00;06;48;00
Brenton
Yeah. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's good. Okay. So with that in mind and actually as as you were talking there, I'm kind of I did some study today about the.

00;06;48;01 - 00;06;50;08
Chris
Yeah, you got a really big book in front of you right now.

00;06;50;08 - 00;07;17;03
Brenton
I like to carry big books with me. So I did some study on it, and it's making me realize, like, how prevalent this language is in, especially the New Testament. But, also in the Old Testament. But, you know, we'll see later on in, in John eight that the Jesus, while talking to the Pharisees says, you are of your father, the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires.

00;07;17;05 - 00;07;38;26
Brenton
And that's similar to what Paul says in Ephesians, that we are by nature children of wrath. And, you know, we see this familial language throughout the Bible. Like I said, especially in the New Testament. But Jesus is obviously referred to as the Son of God. Christians are called children of God, and unbelievers are children of the devil.

00;07;38;29 - 00;07;48;10
Brenton
Why do you think that this kind of familial language is used so much when when talking about our state before God?

00;07;48;12 - 00;08;16;05
Chris
Yeah, that's a that's a really good question. I don't know that I have a great answer. Specific answer, I think partly is because in the Roman world, adoption was a very familiar concept. So it was pretty, pretty common, especially for wealthy, Roman citizens to adopt, a slave as their, their child specifically if they, or especially if they couldn't have children of their own, they would adopt one of their slaves as their child.

00;08;16;05 - 00;08;39;00
Chris
So it was just familiar, like so that they would actually have an heir. This is one of the reasons that they would do it to be able to pass it along. So it was a it was a familiar concept. I think it also, you know, in, in just a clarify, maybe even something for a Sunday in a sense, everybody is a is a child of God and that he is the creator of everyone.

00;08;39;03 - 00;09;00;19
Chris
And that when the Bible talks about we're children of the devil and children of wrath, that's not how God originally created mankind. Like Adam and Eve were children of gods, and in every sense that now an adopted child is And it was only after sin came in that we became children of the devil, because we're following after devil.

00;09;00;19 - 00;09;22;08
Chris
You know, that's the passage you're you're talking about there. And Johnny is used to saying, you know, he's your father because you're lying like him, because he's the father of lies. And, and then we become children of wrath because that's what we're going to inherit. Because of our sin. That's the inheritance there. And so I think that,

00;09;22;10 - 00;09;22;25
Brenton
I.

00;09;22;27 - 00;10;01;23
Chris
I would also guess, that it maybe most closely just relates to us what salvation is truly about is about being dearly loved, totally and unconditionally accepted children, even despite, our, our failures and, our sins. And and that's after we become his children. Like, he still completely loves us and accepts us. And so the reality is, is that nothing that any of my children can do can change the fact that I am their father and they are my child.

00;10;01;24 - 00;10;27;03
Chris
Like it cannot. They cannot be, like, undone. And that, I think is meant to, to, to picture maybe one of the reasons God chose it is because once he adopts us into his family, once we're in his family, that's that's the way it is. And it's always going to be, even when we, sin and, and, mess up and even rebel against him.

00;10;27;05 - 00;10;46;28
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's an analogy, right? I mean, sure, it's an analogy that everybody understands to someone. Family. We, we know practically and you know experienced experientially what, what family is like. And so this is a, you know, a good way to communicate what, what salvation.

00;10;46;28 - 00;11;18;28
Chris
Yeah I think that, you know, all of us come from broken families to some degree. Yeah. But I would say even those who come from really broken families and there are many people who, you know, they do they they don't really have parents who who have loved them. Well, or maybe really at all. And yet we still all have an understanding of what it should be, what it should be like in the relationship, that of a father and, a son or a daughter should have.

00;11;18;28 - 00;11;27;08
Chris
And, we we can we can see that even we can't see in our own family. We can see it in, in other people's families. So. Yeah. Yeah.

00;11;27;11 - 00;11;56;10
Brenton
Okay. So, continuing with that topic, you you mentioned some of the benefits of our adoption. In your sermon, like, eternal life, a home in heaven and an inheritance that is imperishable. All of these are future promises, right? So, with that, I think there is an already not yet kind of aspect to adoption. There are many promises in the New Testament that we can look forward to because we are children of God.

00;11;56;13 - 00;12;00;12
Brenton
Are there any practical benefits that we experience right now because of our adoption?

00;12;00;12 - 00;12;21;03
Chris
Yeah, I would just, respond first of all and saying that eternal life has actually is something that we have right now, like, so we're going to talk about this a lot more. But eternal life is not simply a length of life. It's a quality of life. And so, so Jesus says, I come that you may have life and you may have it in abundance, or you may have it to the full.

00;12;21;06 - 00;12;51;06
Chris
So it's not. And again, that abundance isn't like a number of years, so to speak, that's included. But, it's also a richness of, if you want to use an Old Testament own term, shalom. There's a piece there that's available to us. And so, practical benefits, I mean, it's interesting in Romans 815, the Holy Spirit is called the spirit of adoption, which is pretty significant.

00;12;51;06 - 00;13;14;16
Chris
You know, you think that that's one of the ways that the Holy Spirit is so obviously this adoption because of this is really important. If he's the spirit of of adoption, you know, that passage says by which we we cry, ABBA, father, which means that through the Holy Spirit, we that ABBA is a term of endearment. Endearment. You know, it's it's it's somewhat akin to our daddy.

00;13;14;18 - 00;13;37;06
Chris
And, and so there's, there's, available to us, a close connection. You have been saying intimacy with our Heavenly Father that is available to us now. And the reason that way that we always experience it. And, we can go to Hebrews 12 and it says that God disciplines those who are as his son.

00;13;37;06 - 00;14;11;12
Chris
And, sometimes we think about the completely in negative terms. And it is at times, you know, God says, hey, this isn't good for you, and you need to stop and help you to stop. I'm going to, slap your wrist or I'm going to bring consequences into your life. But other times, discipline, the best discipline, is often preventative is like, hey, I'm going to help you to to, to to to put disciplines into your life to prevent you from, from danger and trouble and, and and things that are going to cause you, you pain.

00;14;11;15 - 00;14;14;07
Chris
So, you know,

00;14;14;09 - 00;14;34;23
Brenton
Yeah, I just to interrupt there, I mean, part of the, the Hebrews 12 there that you're talking about, like the way that the writer of Hebrews frames that is this gives you assurance, like if you are being disciplined by God, it gives him assurance that you are his child. And in the in verse, if you're not, then yeah, that should give you pause.

00;14;34;25 - 00;15;05;27
Chris
Yeah. And there's a is a very close parallel to to human, families and human parenting and discipline is like, in the moment, even talks like, you know, in the moment. It's not fun, right? This is not fun. But children that are not disciplined in the end will come back to their parents and say, why? Why didn't you, kids, they will resist structure, but they desperately needed in order to flourish.

00;15;05;27 - 00;15;36;24
Chris
And so, when I say that happens in every situation and all that, where every kid will come back and say I needed more discipline or needed more structure, but oftentimes that that is that that is the case, that discipline, healthy discipline, loving kind of, discipline is, is a sign of, sign of love. So and then we also have, you know, the, the Lord's Prayer, I think it's better called the disciples prayer is our father who art in heaven.

00;15;36;26 - 00;15;47;29
Chris
And and so there is this, special connection that we, we can experience through prayer and knowing that our father hears us and he wants to longs to give us what we what we asked for.

00;15;48;06 - 00;16;03;01
Brenton
Yeah, that's an easy one to kind of skip past, right. Because we're so used to hearing it. Starts that our father and that's it's easy to forget that there's so much behind that and so much grace that allows us to even be able to call him father.

00;16;03;01 - 00;16;29;18
Chris
Yeah. I will add one more of that. Just popped into my mind from from you, stating that again, it says our father, which means another benefit that we gain from our adoption is siblings and, brothers and sisters in Christ. And I think this is something that very much gets overlooked. Is that, yes. I mean, like, can anybody who has siblings know that siblings can be a pain in the rear end, right.

00;16;29;18 - 00;16;50;21
Chris
And they can, cause trouble and difficulty, you know? But again, the best siblings and and and and even not even the best siblings, even siblings that sometimes can can be difficult. They're still benefits and they're still blessings. And that's what the church is supposed to be and really can be when we're willing to, to, to lean into it.

00;16;50;24 - 00;17;07;21
Chris
And particularly when we are able to be in a healthy church, healthy, which is a healthy family. It's and, you know, the church is another, you know, metaphor, big metaphor for the, the the church is the family or the family of God. So it's all like you said, I think that's great. You pointed out that's all over the place.

00;17;07;22 - 00;17;22;28
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah. That was actually my next question. So maybe you've you've kind of answered it, but how does our adoption affect our relationship with other believers? You know, you you just pointed out that we have brothers and sisters because of that. But what kind of responsibilities do we have? Yeah. That's it.

00;17;22;28 - 00;17;55;10
Chris
That well, big responsibilities. And I think that, you know, we just have this tendency in, in American Christianity to be so individualistic and just to think about, you know, doing our own things, live in our own lives. And that that comes down to even our relationship with, with Jesus, and our heavenly father is like, it's about me and him and, and, you know, and we don't tend to think is no, we've we've been adopted into a family.

00;17;55;10 - 00;18;12;23
Chris
And he doesn't it is very, very clear that we have responsibilities, you know, more than 50 times the New Testament. We see what are known as the one and others. And these are literally commands they're not suggestions or commands to love one another, encourage one another, admonish one another, teach one another, pray for one another, bear one another's burdens.

00;18;12;23 - 00;18;44;06
Chris
Just go all over the place. And it saddens me, and I think it's to our detriment that so often we just like we don't give at the time and do like, I have responsibilities to you. You have responsibilities to me and not to everybody. I mean, like because obviously we we're limited as to how many people we can interact with, but we all have, brothers, sisters in Christ that we need to, to, to be point into and in some sense, and I'm probably going to step on some toes here.

00;18;44;09 - 00;19;08;14
Chris
We, we have more responsibility to our, to our church family than we do to our, actual biological family. And that that's hard, especially in the part of the world that that we live in where family is such a big deal. And I don't mean to undermine that at all. My family's important to me, both my my immediate family and my extended family.

00;19;08;14 - 00;19;30;18
Chris
But the reality is, is that those those biological bonds are only eternal if they are also, you know, adoptive bonds. And, and so, and, and the New Testament has much more to say about the adoptive bonds of the family of God. And that's about the the immediate family.

00;19;30;20 - 00;19;40;14
Brenton
So, yeah. Well, like you said, they're not mutually exclusive necessarily. I mean, know, you have a lot of, believers in your family as well that that would apply to you. But sure.

00;19;40;19 - 00;20;08;03
Chris
Absolutely. Ideally that's a it's a both answer. But yeah, I think sometimes we can though, even when we have, biological family that is believing family, we can spend so much time pouring in and spending with them that we in some ways exclude or minimize the importance of people who are not biologically related to us and our connection relationships with them.

00;20;08;05 - 00;20;08;21
Chris


00;20;08;24 - 00;20;24;01
Brenton
So obviously I mentioned this before, but Jesus is, referred to as the Son of God. And even the second person in the Trinity who is the son. How does our sonship differ from Christ's?

00;20;24;03 - 00;20;48;00
Chris
Well, I'd be interested to hear what you had to say about this, specially since you've been, diving into this. But the first place that I go here is that he's. He's God, and that we're not. So he is the Son of God, but he is also God. We we've seen this in John, already. So, he is, just on a different plane level.

00;20;48;06 - 00;21;11;23
Chris
I mean, that's not even an adequate word to describe it. And so there is that, you know, obviously, Jesus, is not adopted. We we are adopted. So, that, he's always been the Son of God. And, we have only been sons or daughters since, the time that we place our faith in Jesus.

00;21;11;23 - 00;21;39;02
Chris
And so, the relationship between the God the Father and God the Son is on a different order and level than than it is, here they existed in a relationship of love and connection and harmony being three, three people and one, being, we talked about this last week in the Trinity. And so we're not going to, you know, Jesus and God are of the same essence, right?

00;21;39;04 - 00;22;00;20
Chris
So we're not of the same essence is is God. And we're going to so we're going to actually talk about this this coming week is in in verse 18. And Jesus is Jesus says, you know, no one has ever seen God, but the only God who is at the father's side. He has made him known. Father side means bosom, like there's there, you know, here's the again, the mystery of the Trinity.

00;22;00;20 - 00;22;24;28
Chris
But but the when we see Jesus that he's revealing to us God and he's God in human flesh. So it's just a whole different, I should say a whole different, because there is certainly, parallels and things that flow over to us. But, yeah, there's a there's just a few ways I would say it's different. So what do you got to add there.

00;22;25;01 - 00;22;47;23
Brenton
Yeah. I mean, as I was kind of reading over this, today there's a section in John 20, that he's talking to Mary and he says, do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the father, but go to my brothers and say to them, I am ascending to my father, and your father, to my God and your God.

00;22;47;25 - 00;23;13;26
Brenton
And and the point that he's bringing up here is that Jesus never describes God as our father. So, we're never in the same way, like, yeah, we're not on the same level. We're not natural brothers of Jesus. But yet through the justification that we have through Christ, that now as, as John one puts puts it gives us the right to, to be adopted.

00;23;13;26 - 00;23;44;01
Brenton
Right. So, so this is all, you know, it's a work of, of Jesus to, to bring us into that adoption. And not only, you know, Jesus, but the spirit. You know, I forget where that actually was. Now, I think it's Romans eight that, the spirit actually confirms our adoption in, in Christ. And so, you know, without without Jesus's sonship, we don't have one either.

00;23;44;04 - 00;24;12;19
Brenton
Sure. And so, yeah, sure. Okay, so you also pointed out some common misconceptions about how someone becomes a child of God. Things like being born into a Christian home, being a good person or going to church. You know, these are all things we've heard from people before, but what would you say is the most pervasive misconception now in our culture?

00;24;12;22 - 00;24;36;12
Chris
Yeah, I don't that's a hard question. I think to answer is exactly what's the most pervasive. I think it comes at us and in so many different ways. But I think there is this problem that people have with with thinking that saying that Jesus is the only, only way is intolerant. And that's like the worst thing you can be today, right?

00;24;36;12 - 00;25;13;18
Chris
Intolerant. And, it's fine if you want to believe that for you. But if you want to step out of that and, and say that that applies to me or applies to everybody is is problematic, I, I get to decide what's true for me. Okay. So how dare you say that I, I'm not good enough for I can't make my own way to God or, you know, I can't earn my salvation or or whatever, and I just, I think everybody, not everybody, but I think this, this predominant idea is like, we get to be the masters of our own faith.

00;25;13;21 - 00;25;35;11
Chris
We get the we get to decide. I get to decide you. You don't get to tell me how I how I should live. And and I just think that that is so, so pervasive, along with the fact that, you know, truth, like truth is whatever I want to believe. Truth is, and so I think there's all all tied in there together.

00;25;35;15 - 00;25;54;07
Brenton
Yeah, it does seem like that. And it's not new necessarily. But it is kind of just an assumption that, you know, the, the exclusiveness of Christianity is, is unfair. And so it came true, right? Yeah.

00;25;54;10 - 00;26;26;11
Chris
And I think underlying a lot of this is like we have a desperate need to justify us, to justify ourselves. So if you if you think about it this way, we if, if the Bible is true that, we, we can see God in, in creation, like, we can see him, and as Paul says, we know him in the sense of not a, relational knowledge, but a factual knowledge, so to speak.

00;26;26;14 - 00;26;58;20
Chris
But we don't we deny it. We suppress. We suppress that truth. Even though we suppress it, we still that doesn't mean that it goes away. And so I think in the heart of every person, they there is a need to justify themselves. So if you're not going to receive God's justification, then you you have there has to be justification some way I have to make myself, I have, I we haven't maybe put it this way, we have a, a desperate need, all of us to be right.

00;26;58;22 - 00;27;16;26
Chris
And I don't necessarily mean like being right as opposed to like having the right answer or like, I need to be right about this, but to be to be right in stead of, instead of wrong, to be right with God, with somebody who would say the universe or whatever. But just to have this.

00;27;16;26 - 00;27;17;14
Brenton
Interesting.

00;27;17;17 - 00;27;39;21
Chris
Internal sense that I'm. Yeah, good. Right. And that's a good way to put it. And so if that doesn't come by grace alone through faith in alone, in Jesus Christ alone, what Paul lays out, you know, all throughout this New Testament specifically and in Romans, then we are going to find a way to justify ourselves. We're going to work hard.

00;27;39;21 - 00;28;01;15
Chris
And that might be through our family going to church, being a good person, making a lot of money, being the smartest person in the room, our good looks, being, you know, healthy as we can exercise it, working out, it's just a continual cycle. And I'm not talking about everybody else, an exclusion to myself, because I feel this is the same way all the time is like, why?

00;28;01;21 - 00;28;26;19
Chris
Why do I compare myself? Why does everything's tend to be a competition? Why am I just like, you know, when somebody maybe says something about me or some comes at me in some way or criticizes me, why do I why is that hurt so much? Or make me so frustrated or angry? Well, it's because all of a sudden I feel a need to know to justify that one.

00;28;26;19 - 00;28;30;16
Chris
That's not why do I feel such a need to defend myself all the time?

00;28;30;20 - 00;28;32;18
Brenton
Yeah, yeah, it's a natural impulse.

00;28;32;20 - 00;28;51;11
Chris
Yeah. So that's the I don't know if that that that's clear or not. Yeah. But I think that that really is it. If, if, if you asked me I think that that's really at the bottom of all of it. We, we know that we're not right. And we have two choices. Then the Bible would say about what we do when we're not right.

00;28;51;13 - 00;29;05;03
Chris
Do we do like Adam and Eve? Do we try to cover ourselves? And just just to make ourselves right? Or do we lean upon Christ and, and Christ alone for that.

00;29;05;05 - 00;29;29;24
Brenton
Yeah. Okay. So let's wrap up on this. So I'm curious if you have any advice for, you know, listeners as they approach situations like this. So we all know people who profess to be believers. But, you know, it's clear that that they don't necessarily understand the gospel. They they kind of have that, you know, I'm good enough to get in or, you know, whatever.

00;29;29;26 - 00;29;39;18
Brenton
How would you advise someone to approach a situation like that where somebody thinks they're they are a believer, but it's clear that they're not.

00;29;39;20 - 00;30;01;00
Chris
Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of different ways. Yeah. One way is just to try to go to the scriptures as much as you can and to read like, what is what is it really, really say. And I think a great place to go to this. You know, Romans can be pretty heady. And it, it takes Paul a while to get to get there.

00;30;01;02 - 00;30;24;08
Chris
In, in Romans one, two, three and then he, he goes on and on, which is great. Fantastic. It's great for deep study. For me, in the passage I go to all the time, it's probably the passage I've referred to the most here. During my, my ministry at Harmony is Ephesians two one through ten. Paul talks about how we were dead in our transgressions and sins and and we were by nature children of wrath.

00;30;24;09 - 00;30;50;24
Chris
You mentioned that earlier. But then, there's a great but but but God being great and mercy because of the great love which with he loved us, he made us alive. And then he goes down in verse eight and I is by grace. You're saved through faith and not of works, lest anyone should boast. And, and so it's just, it's very, very clear and, and some people will argue with this, but it's just very, very clear.

00;30;50;24 - 00;31;18;26
Chris
We were dead. And God makes us alive. And what can dead people do? They can do nothing. That's the whole reason that I think Paul uses that, that analogy. He makes us alive. How does he do it? By grace. Through faith. Yeah, not it works. So that's kind of the, if you want to teach or study the Bible, another way to do it is to go to the Ten Commandments and just say, hey, have you have you how many of these have you violated?

00;31;18;29 - 00;31;48;24
Chris
And and you're right. And just say, you know, this idea that we can be good enough. Well, you know, and, and, you know, Jesus, Jesus talks about if you violate one, one of them, you've violated them all. And so it's just very, very clear. And one of the purposes of the Ten Commandments are to show us that our need for a Savior, like we can't save ourselves, we can't be we can't be good enough.

00;31;48;24 - 00;32;19;05
Chris
Like, how good is like, how good is good enough? And and the Ten Commandments are there. And I think that's a really practical way. Just, to listen to maybe you don't point it out to them, but maybe, maybe use yourself as an illustration and you can just go through and really you go to the first one, you shall know, are the gods before me and, and, we, we really violate the other nine because, that's the real one is like putting some other God in front of us.

00;32;19;05 - 00;32;40;00
Chris
And so, Yeah, I mean, and I use the example to of, unsung Dave and I didn't clarify this. I have in the past is I don't it's not actually going to happen that you're going to stand before God. He's going to say, why? Why should I allow you into heaven? Like, this is already done at that point.

00;32;40;00 - 00;33;02;04
Chris
That's that's not something that's going to happen. I just use this as an example to to show. But but again, what are you going to say to him. Well I was I kept it most of the time. And if we're honest, I'm really being honest. Is it most of the time. And it's just and also to, just to help people to see the relief.

00;33;02;07 - 00;33;29;24
Chris
And if I have more time on Sunday, I get to talk about the, the relief in I don't have to I don't have to to, to, to to get a perfect score. I don't have to do this and do that and do that. I it takes a it can take the pressure off and the relief off is that, it's not ultimately, in, in my hands my salvation is not.

00;33;29;24 - 00;33;41;07
Chris
And that's just, just how relieving and, you know, something else we didn't talk about on Sunday is and and you probably caught this, but I did verse 13 before I did verse 12. Did you catch.

00;33;41;07 - 00;33;44;14
Brenton
That? Didn't know. Well, because I was working on some words.

00;33;44;14 - 00;34;02;21
Chris
Distracted. Well in verse, verse 12 is, is you know, he talks about to those who believe he gives the right to those who believe, who receive him, to those who believe in his name. But then in verse 13, he talks about how it's not of blood, it's not of the will of the flesh is not the way of a man, but of God.

00;34;02;24 - 00;34;24;14
Chris
In other words, why do we believe? We believe because God decides to to come after us and to, make his make us his children through faith and what comes first and back. This is back to to Ephesians chapter two. We were dead. He makes us alive. And then we believe. It's not. We believe. And then he makes us alive, adopts us.

00;34;24;14 - 00;34;49;28
Chris
He adopts us as we place our faith in Christ. And it's his gracious choice. And we go back to Ephesians. I'm I know I'm all over the place, but Ephesians chapter one is, is really about I think it's really important, especially to this discussion about, this works and saving ourselves and contributing to our salvation. But Ephesians one tells us that we were chosen in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy, an and blameless in his sight.

00;34;50;00 - 00;35;08;22
Chris
In love he predestined us before the foundation. So he chose us to be his children before he even made the world. And then at some point in our lives, he gives us the faith to believe, and we believe and become his children. Now, do we have a real choice? Absolutely. Faith is a it is a choice to to believe.

00;35;08;24 - 00;35;13;08
Chris
But it comes about because of the sovereign and gracious work of God. Yeah.

00;35;13;11 - 00;35;14;05
Brenton
It's good.

00;35;14;08 - 00;35;14;25
Chris
Yeah.

00;35;14;27 - 00;35;17;17
Brenton
Yeah, it's a lot of questions.

00;35;17;17 - 00;35;39;26
Chris
For next week. We'll come out of that. But I do think it's I do think it's, it's really, really important to this discussion is because if. Belief starts with me then then that means that there's something that, that, it's of the will of man. And that's exactly what would. John. Sorry that Paul the John is saying is not of the will of man.

00;35;39;26 - 00;35;43;26
Chris
It's not of human determination. It's it's of God.

00;35;43;29 - 00;35;50;10
Brenton
Yeah. That was a whole section that I thought about getting into today. There's a whole nother episode's worth there.

00;35;50;12 - 00;35;52;04
Chris
Yeah. We've we talked about that back in Romans.

00;35;52;08 - 00;36;06;11
Brenton
We did plenty. Yeah. Go check out our Romans episodes. All right. Chris, I enjoyed the conversation today. Again, if you guys have any questions, ask it for their podcast.com. And we will talk to you next week.

00;36;06;18 - 00;36;07;12
Chris
Yep. Thanks everybody.