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Intro
That's why we got to know God's word and why theology really, truly does matter. Why I loved to preach God's Word and why I try to do it so passionately. Because it's not just facts or things that that don't really matter to the day to day program of our lives. They literally matter in everything we do, every environment we live, every relationship that.

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Brenton
We are in. Welcome back further. I am Brant and Graham. Matt Mitchell, how are you doing today?

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Matt
Oh I'm good.

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Brenton
Good.

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Matt
It's great to be here.

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Brenton
Yeah. You did the gantlet this week. So you were in, Burlington and then Danville?

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Matt
Yes. Right. That is what they call it. The thing that, seems intimidating. But then you realize Chris Carr does that every single week.

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Brenton
Right. Well, good for good for Chris.

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Matt
He's good. That's right.

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Brenton
But I appreciate you, putting the work into, preaching. I know that that's, it's a full week and then a full Sunday morning for you. So, I'm curious, kind of right off the bat. What? As you were prepping for this? What kind of stood out to you? What what stuck with you as you went into Sunday?

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Matt
Yeah, that's a that's a great question. And a lot did. So I've been comparing it. I've been telling other people it's like this and I've been comparing it to this. Chris opened up his sermon two weeks ago at the beginning of John chapter two, talking about Jesus turning the water into wine and, at the wedding at Canaan at Cana and saying, I've known this story all my life.

00;01;46;10 - 00;02;03;13
Matt
I was a little kid, but the Lord was showing me things, and I was reading things and my study that I had no idea that this was really about so much bigger, you know, and I would say I had almost identical experience with studying for this passage at the latter part of, John two and Jesus cleansing the temple.

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Matt
I've heard this, ever since I was a little kid growing up in church. And the other gospel writers talk about it as well. And, there's even speculation on did Jesus cleanse the temple twice? Cleanse at once? Either way, happens kind of the same way as the seal. And, clears out the the bad. But, I just realized this is way bigger than I thought it was.

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Matt
And it's not just about him being zealous in this moment and bring in some temporary reformation, but it is it's it's just right there in the text. He's pointing to something greater coming. So. Yeah.

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Brenton
Yeah, that's, that's, you know, easy to do when we're, we grow up with these stories and, you know, the, the narrative kind of, way of reading things where, you know, this thing happened and. Right, who knows what it actually meant. But we know that it happened. And so, you know, reading now with fresh eyes, and like, lines like we saw here that he's calling, the temple, his body and, and so, you know, there's just so much more meaning that that needs to be pulled out of these things.

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Brenton
And so, so, I guess kind of going from there, you know, with the story, there are a lot of misconceptions. and I think, you know, it is such a popular story. So, one is that I think you talked about it a little bit on Sunday, but one is that, you know, Jesus seems almost flippant or or just, you know, I think he is angry, but he's not just angry for the sake of being angry, right?

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Brenton
He has he has a mission, right? as you as you studied that, what did you come to see as, like his his purpose there?

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Matt
Yeah. I think out of the gate, everybody, when they read this passage, you're like, okay, why? Why is he so upset? What's going on here? And so, I was definitely thinking about that. stay in the text looking at some commentaries. I remember I met with somebody, was doing some early discipleship stuff with with somebody that, had mentioned this passage and they said it wasn't there a time that Jesus sinned?

00;04;16;28 - 00;04;36;08
Matt
like when he went to the temple and, like, flip the tables over and stuff, like, didn't Jesus sin? And, and, you know, I take, correct him and say, no, that wasn't true. He. Yes, he was being zealous and he was angry, but it was, it was a righteous anger. And it was actually good, in Jesus sinless.

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Matt
So, he never sinned. but it kind of. How do I say this? It shows culturally, like, what we think is appropriate or not appropriate, what's what's bad and sinful and what's not. It's like if somebody's getting angry and forceful. Yeah, it must be sin that's so common. I mean, like, who wouldn't think that? But digging into this more, I was like, okay, Jesus went in here on purpose and with purpose.

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Matt
And, the temple had been it's the the temple. His purpose had been lost. So Jesus went in there with a lot of purpose. And, just wanted to force everybody out.

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Brenton
Yeah, yeah. We're going to talk about zeal a little later. And, you know, I think the, the issue of anger will come up and but, you know, we do see from Jesus here that there are appropriate times for anger, right?

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Matt
Absolutely.

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Brenton
you know, another another thing I think I hear from this story a lot is, you know, anytime a church puts a coffee bar in their lobby or shirts selling t shirts or something, that it's kind of conflated with this, with this story of, you know, turning, turning God's house into into a merchant race. Yeah. what are your thoughts on that after after studying this?

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Matt
Yeah. No. No concerts and they can't sell their t shirts afterwards? No. no, I really I think growing up knowing passages like this, Jews clear in the temple, I think my the obvious application for me without thinking about it longer than two seconds was I, I don't know about the stuff for sale in the church lobby. You know, what is like is that bad?

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Matt
Is like, is that why Jesus is upset? that's not at the core of why Jesus is in here. It's not because there's some people selling things, that does get abused. And it's not that it's not happening. Well, but that's not the core of the passage. Although I will say that if there's anything that someone is selling that's good and on the church premises or whatever, it can be a distraction from real worship.

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Matt
Or, you know, you could take things that are good and it turn and ends up eclipsing the thing that's ultimately the best. Or and that's a real worship of the Lord. So things could get overblown. But I don't think that's typically the case that, you know, just somebody there's a book that's for sale in the foyer for $10 at the bookstore or the display counter or something.

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Matt
That's that's not bad. That's good. You should you should buy a book that is about growing in your walk with the Lord and read it. That's fantastic. or if coffee's $2 or something, that's okay. But if there's things going on that are distracting people from really worshiping God at any moment, then we should our, our alert, our alarm bells should be going off a little bit.

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Brenton
Or, you know, I mean, I think in this story, we see people really getting taken advantage of more than anything.

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Matt
Yes, yes, there's an injustice happening.

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Brenton
Yeah. So would you, I guess, just out of curiosity, would you say that when when Herod, kind of expanded those outer courts to, to really make, I don't know, I guess to give a charitable, charitable view to it, make these sacrifices accessible to people. Do you think that started out well or and then got taken advantage of, or was that wrong from the start?

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Matt
That that's a great question. And it's just yeah, it's really all speculation. But I think it's all a matter of like, it's always a matter of the heart. Right? You know, just says out of the overflow of the heart, someone speaks, it's not what we put into the body. So, the defiles us. What comes out out of the heart?

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Matt
So what was going on here? The Great's heart. I don't know, I'm guessing it was bad from the start. He was trying to, take advantage of people and make this thing into a, You know, a lucrative business is what I mentioned my sermon. But if there is somebody I think that had pure motives that was like, hey, let's expand the court.

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Matt
Let's bring in the sacrifices that are required in the Old Testament law. Right. And let's sell them for a very fair price. if you know, or kind of just, the exchange of what it would have cost just to raise them or something, and it was just equitable and good. I think that it's all where the heart is.

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Matt
with leadership and the priests and, the research I was doing on this passage, it was evident that from the Sanhedrin and the priests to King Herod to the money changers, just everyone was, benefiting from this, in a bad way. Yeah. And it was, was not helpful for true worship, so.

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Brenton
Yeah. Good. you did spend some time talking about, the history of the different temples and so, you know, Israel started with the tabernacle. We see that in Exodus. and then later on, they, once they get into the promised Land, they are able to construct a permanent temple and then, you know, that's destroyed, and then they rebuild this temple.

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Brenton
Yeah. what what would you say the purpose of those temples were? What was the significance to the to the Jewish culture then?

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Matt
Yeah. So I'm definitely not an expert here, but the little I know, just from reading my Bible and knowing my Bible is, you know, going back to Genesis three, the fall of mankind, Adam and Eve were in the presence of God, but then have to leave the presence of God because their sin, their rebellion. But then, the Lord shows up to the patriarchs in these different ways at different times.

00;10;12;09 - 00;10;34;14
Matt
And you know, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, onward. But then once we get to Moses and the Israelites in Egypt in their 400 years of slavery, God has this amazing plan to deliver them out of Egypt with a mighty hand and outstretched arm. And, you know, you've got the plagues and you've got everything culminating with the Passover, and then the Red sea.

00;10;34;16 - 00;11;01;22
Matt
And then it's obvious that's in God's heart to save them and then give them the law. And he wants to dwell with them. And, a more consistent way, rather than these kind of little touch points like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had and others. So it's like the Lord wanted to dwell with his people in this tangible way that he was going to be, dwell inside this tent made of skins, you know, and cloth.

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Matt
And it's it's remarkable to think that he would do that. he's also everywhere, you know, God's omnipresent. He's everywhere all at once. But he chose to manifest himself in this special way in the tabernacle, this mobile temple. but, yeah, I mean, it's interesting if you read those Old Testament scriptures, the tabernacle is always in dead center, the middle of the camp, you know, so, like God's in the center of his people.

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Matt
And, and then but, yeah, they wandered through the desert and they keep, taking down the tabernacle and putting it up again. It's mobile. It's, you know, it's a little just this gigantic tent. But then they get into Jerusalem, like you said, and they they build a permanent temple because God tells David his son is going to do that.

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Matt
So Solomon did that, and during the capital city and the promised Land, and God fills that permanent temple and dwells in it. but, you know, yeah, it's just one of those. Yeah. It's just the progress of what God does. But his people rebel. And so there's a second temple that gets rebuilt.

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Brenton
And yeah, I think you you kind of start to see the progressive revelation of God. Right? So, you know, and I think thank you for bringing up creation there. I think that that's that's relevant here, that that relationship was broken. And now now we're far away from God. Yeah. you know, access 29. God says for the generations to come, this burnt offering is to be made regularly at the entrance to the tent of meeting before the Lord.

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Brenton
There I will meet with you and speak to you there also I will meet with the Israelites, and the place will be consecrated by my glory. And so you know, we see God even then condescending down to us. yeah, to meet with us and in some form at least. And so, yeah, very, very significant to the people of Israel.

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Brenton
Right?

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Matt
Yeah. That's a great passage to articulate that.

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Brenton
So we see then in this passage, you know, like I was saying, kind of progressively revealing himself to us. Now we see Jesus actually calling himself the temple. what do you think the, the implications are, you know, say from Old Testament would they have the tabernacle? They have the temple. And now Jesus is saying, I am the temple.

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Brenton
Now, what do you think the implications are of that?

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Matt
Yeah, I think at its simplest, temple meaning, dwelling place, God's dwelling place where he chooses to meet with mankind. And so Jesus is basically saying, I am the dwelling place of God, and he is he is God. He's the Son of God, and he's interacting with mankind all over the place. And it's not just in Jerusalem, in a building, but it's everywhere.

00;13;55;21 - 00;14;20;11
Matt
Jesus is walking around with his disciples and healing people and teaching the crowds and, healing the sick. And it just kind of this remarkable display of God incarnate with his people. And he's saying, you know, God's dwelling is with you right now, basically. Yeah. and then it's remarkable to that. He says this temple, meaning himself, needs to be destroyed.

00;14;20;14 - 00;14;36;16
Matt
And then, rebuilt in three days, pointing obviously to his crucifixion, his resurrection, and this new way of worship and accessing God's that's going to be experienced after Jesus's death and resurrection.

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Brenton
Yeah. So Jesus obviously calls himself a temple here. But what what does it mean? It was another thing that you brought up, about us being temples of the Holy Spirit. What what is what does that mean? What are the implications of that?

00;14;54;22 - 00;15;27;18
Matt
Yeah. So it's clear later in John G. To start saying things like, I'm going to go away, but I'm not going to leave you, I'm going to send the counselor missing this helper, some of the Holy Spirit. And so we're going to get into that once we get into John chapter 14 1516. and so Jesus predicts this to the third person of the Trinity is going to come to empower and to give counsel and indwells.

00;15;27;20 - 00;15;58;17
Matt
And then in the New Testament later, like in especially Paul's letters like first Corinthians six and second Corinthians six, the apostle Paul literally says that we, are literally temples of the Holy Spirit. As believers and that we have the presence of God living in us now. so we're, you know, individual dwelling places of God which, don't ask me to explain more than that is far as I don't know how it all works, but I know this is what God's Word says.

00;15;58;17 - 00;16;19;17
Matt
And I also know that, you know, like Ephesians one says that when somebody becomes a believer, you're sealed with the Holy Spirit forever. You can't lose the spirit. And people start acting different and living different and have different affections when God comes into them. And, they've made Jesus their Lord. and that's because their hearts regenerated as it's new.

00;16;19;20 - 00;16;45;19
Matt
Something in life is there. That was not before. And, so going back, kind of if I can go back to the you asking about the temples, it's like I think about they leave Eden, Adam and Eve leave Eden, and then Moses time, they've got the tabernacle, then it's the temple. Then Jesus says, I'm the temple. And then an hour day, it says, God's people are the temple.

00;16;45;25 - 00;17;08;00
Matt
And then Peter says, we're living stones being built together collectively, like into this, this dwelling place of worship. And so and then all that's heading towards the final book of the Bible, you know, the book of Revelation. Towards the end, there's going to be this new Jerusalem where God's people dwell with him. and, I don't know how all that's going to look either, but it's going to be amazing.

00;17;08;00 - 00;17;21;10
Matt
And it's just this progressive plan of, salvific the plan of salvation is unrolling, towards revelation. Yeah. 21 and 22.

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Brenton
So you you said that we can't afford to get worship wrong. And, you know, obviously in our story, we're reading the they were getting it wrong in, in a lot of different ways. Yeah. But bringing that into, you know, modern context, how do people how do we get worship wrong today?

00;17;42;11 - 00;18;07;16
Matt
Yeah. So getting worship wrong can happen in so many different ways. And I think the main ways we see it going wrong in our passage, John 213 to 25 is there is just so much distraction. There's so many things that were taking place that it was almost crowding out, just coming before the Lord in prayer and adoration.

00;18;07;19 - 00;18;26;29
Matt
So, you know, I think I mentioned this in my sermon, but this outer court where all the money changers are out and the animals and stuff, this is supposed to be the court of the Gentiles, where foreigners could come and pray and worship God. And so just, you know, we don't have these different courts and we're not selling animals in our, you know, church for years and stuff.

00;18;26;29 - 00;18;49;19
Matt
But there just can be so many things that can distract us outside of Sunday morning worship. And even as we show up and, we're not prepared for it, we we're just going through the motions all of us can relate with that. And so I think there's just, taking opportunities to remember, just like Jesus was on his way from Galilee, the region of Galilee, to Jerusalem for the Passover feast.

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Matt
And I mentioned he's premeditate and think on Passover. There's just something about getting in the right headspace of I'm going to worship with my family or by myself, and then just showing up and doing the same old thing that I've always done, you know, and stripping the meaning out of it. And then to I mean, we can really get it wrong when we are worshiping something that's not God.

00;19;12;06 - 00;19;32;17
Matt
And I kind of mentioned that too, with other religions. they're way off base because they're, they're looking to an idol or something that is manmade. or has some sort of dark presence behind it, you know, like voodoo or something, but it can't deliver like the living God, and it can't bring salvation. It can't bring ultimate peace and enjoy.

00;19;32;17 - 00;19;52;27
Matt
So, but that's not just those people and weird places around the world, you know, that's us too. We can worship our stuff and our job or our relationship or money or whatever. It is just things. It's like the Lord's not really number one. And that's how I'm getting my worship wrong, is I've got something else on the throne in my heart.

00;19;52;27 - 00;19;55;24
Matt
So, that's kind of how I'd flesh that out a little bit.

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Brenton
Yeah, I think we still see, you know, parallels between what we read and John and what's happening today. I think a lot of we can point to a lot of people that are using, you know, the, the worship of God. selfishly, for their own gain. I think that that's still a common story being told today.

00;20;18;28 - 00;20;49;00
Brenton
but also, I think that another common way of of distorting our worship, especially when we think of in corporate worship, is, you know, putting our, our desires in front of what God desires, of how he wants to be worshiped. I think that's that's super common for, you know, with the way we craft our, our worship services to be made, in, in our image, more than, more than how God wants to that to be done.

00;20;49;02 - 00;21;13;09
Matt
Yeah. Brennan, I think that's a great comment. And I can remember posting about it earlier today or yesterday, but that exactly we just said was on my mind because I was thinking of. Kind of, for lack of a better term, bad worship songs, but like songs that are all, all about me and God helping me in my situation and me slaying my giants.

00;21;13;09 - 00;21;41;04
Matt
And and it's like sometimes those songs can have their time and place because the Lord is for us, and he is in our life and he is interacting, and he does want to deliver us, but only singing songs about the Lord helping bail me out of the next thing. Or he's with me, but not like just me exalting God like Holy, holy, holy is Lord God Almighty or yeah, high and lifted up and, you know, the wonderful cross and getting me thinking, getting my eyes off of myself and up on him.

00;21;41;06 - 00;22;00;22
Matt
I think that can, really just revitalize true worship in us. we've got we gotta have a balance, you know? But, we can get off track. And, if it's just all about what God can do for me, you know, he's he's like the genie in the bottle for sure.

00;22;00;24 - 00;22;24;06
Brenton
Yeah. All right, well, I want to kind of wrap up on this idea of zeal. then, you know, you use this word a lot in this, in this sermon. and I'm kind of curious when when do you think zeal becomes sinful? We see Jesus being very zealous and, you know, angry, but without sin on our side.

00;22;24;06 - 00;22;28;04
Brenton
When does that become sinful?

00;22;28;06 - 00;22;52;11
Matt
Yeah. I mean, earlier in the episode, we talked about the motives of the heart. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think if you don't have enough time to even process something of like, where's my heart at my word is going for it out of impulse. It's probably already in the flesh, and it's sinful. I just think about the times I, I blow it, and I'm,

00;22;52;13 - 00;23;23;26
Matt
I treat Olivia my wife poorly or my my girls and I've got zeal, but it's, it's just me being angry and irritated, and I wasn't thinking and processing, and I'm not being led by the spirit I'm not under. I'm not even under control. I'm just upset in that moment or something. some things I mentioned in my sermon that we know to be true of Jesus spirit led under control.

00;23;23;29 - 00;23;45;20
Matt
for the good of God and others, for the glory of God in others. You know, it's like, am I real worked up about this? But it's God's actually, like, this is honoring to him, and it's actually good for others, and there's some sort of injustice happening. And, you know, I don't know about how many things typically we don't have to be impulsive about anything.

00;23;45;20 - 00;24;18;11
Matt
Like that's not being demanded of us sometimes, maybe, like we need to take action. There's something going on right in front of us. Some sort of injustice. Somebody getting robbed or, bullied or something. And and there's a way to enter into that, maybe almost immediately under control and spirit led. But a lot of times I think the Lord gives us options of, we can react right now, or we can sit on this for a second and pray about it, process it, and then we can act and I think option two is always, going to lead to the better result.

00;24;18;15 - 00;24;44;07
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. I think every time this topic is brought up, I think of, Calvin had a, had a popular quote that said, zeal without doctrine is like a sword in the hand of a lunatic. And and I think that's very true. And I think we see here that Jesus came in, knew knew what his purpose was, and and that's what he was fulfilling.

00;24;44;07 - 00;25;16;20
Brenton
But, you know, I think it's it's not uncommon for, for our zeal just to look like unregulated emotions. Right? So we're just kind of playing out whatever, whatever we're feeling and not necessarily putting that in its in its proper place or doing it for any kind of right motive. and so, you know, knowing, knowing in our head what, what direction we're going, and if it's the proper way to go first before we just kind of let our emotions get the best of us there.

00;25;16;21 - 00;25;19;02
Matt
Yeah, definitely.

00;25;19;04 - 00;25;37;06
Brenton
All right. I said I was going to wrap up in the last one, but, I decided to do one more. So, you know, the end of this passage. Jesus. it says that he did not entrust himself to them because he knew all people. What? What does he mean by this?

00;25;37;08 - 00;26;06;01
Matt
Yeah. Great question. Yeah. So to answer that at the end of chapter two, what's interesting, I think, is before that part about Jesus, not interesting himself to them, it says that many believed in his name. And when they saw the signs that he was doing and then it says, But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all people and needed no one to bear witness about man for himself knew what was in man.

00;26;06;03 - 00;26;32;05
Matt
So it's like, okay, they believed. But why is that belief not good enough? And like, why isn't Jesus entrusting himself to them? And, I think what's going on here is these people are just it's just a temporary belief, just kind of like I'm inspired in the moment type belief, but it's not saving belief. And we know it's not saving belief because Jesus mission wasn't just a can be a good teacher and do some science and inspire people.

00;26;32;05 - 00;26;55;11
Matt
And it was like, hey, be enlightened once you see Jesus do signs and teach and he's he's the king. He's he's he's our savior. He says right before that, when he's in the temple, this temple, meaning his body has to be destroyed and then raised up three days later. And, that's key because that's how real belief is going to take place, not just like this seasonal.

00;26;55;11 - 00;27;15;29
Matt
I'm inspired for the moment, but a crucified and risen Lord who is the only way to have access to the living God. And so, I guess, Jesus, he's just being a way better leader than any earthly leader, because any earthly leader to be like, cool, I've got a following and this is good. You know, I'm trying to do good things here.

00;27;16;01 - 00;27;37;19
Matt
And Jesus just knows that, no, this belief isn't good enough. I'm not entrusting myself to these people. I need to die for these people. And I be raised for these people so that they really can have access to God and, not have, you know, darkness and, but belief and, light in the heart.

00;27;37;26 - 00;27;43;19
Brenton
Yeah. Good. All right. Well, I said I'd wrap up there, so. Okay. The second time of work.

00;27;43;22 - 00;27;44;11
Matt
Thanks for having me.

00;27;44;13 - 00;27;55;06
Brenton
Yeah, thanks for coming in, Matt. and, yeah, if you guys have any questions on this, feel free to send us an email. Ask it for on the podcast.com. I appreciate you listening and moral authority.

00;27;55;06 - 00;27;55;21
Matt
Next week.