00;00;40;06 - 00;00;46;23
Brenton
Welcome back to further. I am Brittany. Today, we got Nathan Williams in the studio. How are you doing?

00;00;46;29 - 00;00;48;21
Nathan
I'm doing all right. It's good to be here, bro.

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Brenton
Yeah. Good. It's good to have you back. Clay, Baker also preached. He was preaching here in Burlington. But, you know, things are just kind of crazy here in the offices. And so he wasn't able to make it today, but, Yeah, we got we got a lot of exciting things coming up. So actually start our, all in series on Sunday.

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Brenton
What are your thoughts on all this?

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Nathan
Hey, I'm excited to see where God is going to bring this church in the next few years. And so I'm all in. Let's see what happens.

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Brenton
Right.

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Nathan


00;01;22;22 - 00;01;46;09
Brenton
All right. Well, let's just, go ahead and jump into the questions. So, you, you talked about some things that keep people from surrendering to Jesus. You know, you, you gave like money, power, sex, the list goes on and on. These behaviors are, you know, they're they're a symptom of a deeper problem, which is their sin nature.

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Brenton
Right. So as you talk to people, about their need for Jesus, just thinking practically here, do you do you focus on these outward behaviors or do you go straight for the root of the problem?

00;02;01;29 - 00;02;41;16
Nathan
Well, really, just the fruit is really just a window to the soul. And we call that the heart or the root. Yeah. So so really and I'm assuming where you're taking this is from because I talked about that, the Pharisees, the religious leaders in here, where, where even though it might have been obvious that they knew that Jesus Christ, they did not want to admit that who as Christ would not accept that because of their evil heart, because they were wanting to hold on to their powerful positions and all that and, and and likewise, you know, so often people even today is like, do I really want to give up all this to follow

00;02;41;16 - 00;03;01;03
Nathan
Christ? You know, because people struggle with that, you know what I mean? So it's easier to just to deny him so but it really does point back to the heart. To the heart. So, so when we're trying to deal with someone who's dealing with this, first of all, we recognize they're really not followers of Jesus Christ because of their fruit.

00;03;01;03 - 00;03;22;10
Nathan
That's how we recognize to start with or, you know, because how you act is who you are, right? So, so so the problem is then we got to go back and sort of identify that and talk. So a lot of addiction programs, they focus on the on the fruit. Yeah. Well let's just keep picking off that fruit.

00;03;22;10 - 00;03;38;01
Nathan
Well what's going to happen if I keep picking off that fruit. It's just going to keep growing back because I haven't dealt with the root. And so we got to get to the root. Now when we first meet with someone we might talk about the fruit, but then we need to go back and sort of say, but what's the underlying problem?

00;03;38;01 - 00;04;05;26
Nathan
And normally well, normally always really the, the underlying problem is, is Jesus. We need Jesus because without repentance and to him and him for giving us the heart hasn't changed. So the fruit will just keep you know, we might be able to fake it for a while, but we got to get to the fruit to the root, which is the heart of the issue, which is we need Jesus.

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Nathan
Yeah.

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Brenton
So what is like practically what does that look like for you as you're having conversations with people? Because like you, you're really involved with Christ. You you have a lot of community, interactions. Like what? What does that look like for you?

00;04;20;05 - 00;04;43;12
Nathan
Well, well, really for me, it's and you mentioned CR so I've literally had people say to me before, you know, we can't be talking about Jesus so much. We can't be. You know, a lot of these people aren't church people. You know, we just we just gotta get in and help them overcome their issues. And so little by little, me and I'm like, no, if we're not focusing on Jesus, we're missing the whole point.

00;04;43;13 - 00;05;01;03
Nathan
I don't even want to do it. Yeah, it's all about Jesus. So. So I'm not shy about getting to the root of the issue, you know what I mean? And I often point my finger at someone who said, you know, you know what your problem is? You're a sinner. I'll say it like that. And that kind of look at me like like a deer in the headlights look.

00;05;01;03 - 00;05;22;27
Nathan
And then I'll say, yeah, just like me. You. Which. Then the tension comes down. They smile because they realize the bottom line is we all have a sin issue. And even though we're redeemed when we trust Christ, we still struggle from time to. And we still have to go back and check our heart and say, am I in line with what Jesus wants me to do?

00;05;23;01 - 00;05;42;18
Nathan
Am I really following him? So we gotta keep going back to the heart of the issue. Yeah. And always. And so right from the beginning. Yet I'm not afraid to jump in. And hey, this is the know. Now, sometimes we got to so someone doesn't even believe in God. Yeah. Right now we got to start there because they don't even realize there's a heart issue.

00;05;42;18 - 00;05;59;08
Nathan
They don't even realize what they're doing is sinful until they come to recognize, yes, there's a God and what he's done for their responsibility to him. And then we can start saying so, oh, so I am a sinner. Oh yeah, okay, now we can get down to that.

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Brenton
Well, and that's kind of the situation I'm thinking about is, you know, I think that it's easy sometimes for us to get hung up on, you know, these blatant sins and, and think that, you know, if, if we just you got to stop doing this thing. Right. And that's why we get hung up on instead of, you know, this is, this is an issue, you know, that that starts somewhere else.

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Brenton
It starts with your nature, for sure. And so I'm just kind of wondering how we can, as we talk to unbelievers, not get hung up on that, and actually go to the root of the issue.

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Nathan
Well, that's big what you just said. How when we talk to unbelievers. Yeah. Because there's to to a huge, big degree. So so the actual Paul says it's not for me to judge those outside of the church. In other words, unbelievers, you know, so we shouldn't focus in on the issue. I mean, I shouldn't be saying, hey, you know what?

00;06;58;22 - 00;07;16;03
Nathan
You shouldn't be living with that woman. You know, I mean, if they're unbelievers, I just want to love them and bring them to Christ. Now, it's different for believers or professing believers. Hey, you say, I'm going to say no, dude. Come on. Yeah, you're my brother. You're living in a way that's not reflecting Christ. So there's two different issues here.

00;07;16;03 - 00;07;42;19
Nathan
So I think yes, for, for for an unbeliever, we need to take a much more gentler approach. Not that one of judgmental condemnation for their sinful activities. Deep down inside, they know, they know. And and because of their sinful activities that they're going to experience or are experiencing a certain level of dysfunction. And, just messed up lives, right?

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Nathan
Which actually brings a lot of them to our counseling ministry. And then as you start talking about the fruit of their actions, which brings all kinds of dysfunction and arguments and fights and quarrels and anxieties, James 41I do what I do because I want what I want basically is what he's saying, you know, but it brings on all this thing and then we can say, well, why is that?

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Nathan
Yeah, it's because of selfish, sinful heart. Oh, really? So guess how we cure that? We point them to Jesus. Yeah.

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Brenton
So yeah. And I guess I'm not saying that we should totally avoid talking about their sin, right? Like. Right. But I like what you said earlier about, you know, that we use their sin to point them toward the truth. And the goal of that interaction, you know, is to point out their state before a holy God, right, that they they don't measure up.

00;08;37;04 - 00;08;49;03
Brenton
And so using that sin to do that. But if our only goal is like, you know, please stop doing this thing right. I don't like this thing. Yeah. Then I don't I don't think we're we're really doing anything justice.

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Nathan
And it's how you do it to you. And you know, Ephesians 415 says, speaking the truth in love. You know, if we if we go out with it with that attitude of condemnation, hey, you're doing this. You're living like this. You're going to hell. Yeah. I mean, it's like they're going to run from us so fast. You know?

00;09;08;17 - 00;09;31;12
Nathan
We're not even going to be able to speak the truth in love because. Or in any kind of way, because we've already put them off by speaking maybe the truth in hate. You know, we're not supposed to do that, right? So. So we let them know we actually love them, even in their sinful state, just in the way that Jesus loved us while we were still sinners and gave himself up for us.

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Nathan
So we got to love them in their state. You know what I mean? However they are, and when they say we love him, they're willing. They're more ready to actually listen to us when we do tell them the truth about a loving God who was who was there, who died for their sins and is willing to forgive them for their sins.

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Nathan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

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Brenton
You used first Corinthians, 118. I'll just read it real fast. Says, for the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. You use this to to highlight the difference between those who reject Jesus. You know, you called them the deniers and those who believe, which, you.

00;10;17;15 - 00;10;26;20
Brenton
So you call them the believers. Why do you, some people view the message of the cross as foolishness.

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Nathan
Yeah, it's it's the age old deception. Bratten. And going back to Genesis tract, chapter three in the Garden of Eden. You know, we're basically Satan. He he he he he's after our pride and he and he and our ego. And he says to Eve, don't you want to be wise like God? You know what I mean? Yeah.

00;10;49;21 - 00;11;16;24
Nathan
So, so and he's done that over the years to pretty much anything to Darwin, you know what I mean? You know, I mean, don't want to be wise, you know, why do you figure out the universe? You know, God's already spelled it out for us in his word. But no, no, no, you can be wise. So, so so here's what's happened in our search, in our worldly, human search for wisdom, we've come to the point where we've become very prideful in to think that we can no more than God.

00;11;16;28 - 00;11;46;07
Nathan
Right. So as we become more than, prideful in our knowledge and think we know more than God, we think that anything to do with God is foolishness. Even the cross. Yeah. Which which really? First Corinthians, that whole chapter is talks about this. It talks about the foolishness. The wisdom of man is foolishness to God or me.

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Nathan
And so it's just a contrast of man's wisdom and God's wisdom. And it's just like, wow, yeah, yeah.

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Brenton
Well, yeah. Even in first Corinthians right after that, Paul's referring back to the Old Testament. He says, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart. And so this is this is, you know, obviously, God's speaking at that point, but it's, it really is a, a contrast between, you know, who we view ourselves as and who God views us as.

00;12;24;03 - 00;12;46;15
Nathan
Right. Yeah. In the, in that. Yeah. In that same chapter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What where verse 20. Where is the wise man. Where is the scholar. Where is the philosopher of the sage? All those terms that we think, oh yeah, these are, these are the intelligent, these are the. And then he says, has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

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Brenton
Yeah.

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Nathan
You know, so for since the wisdom of the, of God, the world through wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolish foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. So that was what was preached. It was the cross. And to them it was foolishness. Skip down a verse and he says, but we preach Christ crucified.

00;13;11;00 - 00;13;34;20
Nathan
There's the cross, and here he goes, a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Gentiles. So he keeps going on in this things is like the wisdom of God to a world who has rejected God is foolishness. Why would someone come and die for us? That's a bunch of baloney. That's foolishness. That's all. The world is human wisdom.

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Nathan
Because we're smarter than God, right? And God says, no, no, you're going to find out who's really the wise one. And it's not you. Yeah.

00;13;47;19 - 00;14;25;07
Brenton
Yeah. Okay. So one, it's a question. I was just kind of curious about what you what you had to say. So this is the second time we've seen Nicodemus in the book of John, right. So, we'll see him again actually in chapter 19. But we kind of see this progression of him moving, you know, from John three that we already covered, questioning Jesus to now kind of cautiously defending him against the other Pharisees, and then later we'll see him honoring Jesus after his death.

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Brenton
Why why do you think John included him so much in, in his book?

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Nathan
Yeah, that's a great question. Really. Brenton, we all like to profile people. We all do profile. So let's just say I know it's not a popular. It's not something we're supposed to do. We're not supposed to, but we do. And so easy to profile Nicodemus with just all the Pharisees. All the Pharisees. When we read through the Gospels, it's like, oh, the Pharisees, unless you throw him, they're all going to hell.

00;14;57;18 - 00;15;19;22
Nathan
Yeah. I mean, Jesus called them a brood of vipers, you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, hypocrites. You know, I mean, Jesus was so harsh on them and and Nicodemus was like, throw out the baby with the bathwater, right? Throw out Nicodemus. But yet we see that, Nicodemus, there's something different about Nicodemus, and he's searching for the truth.

00;15;19;25 - 00;15;41;05
Nathan
And he comes to Jesus in chapter three and he says, oh, you know, there's something different. I believe you are a teacher sent from God. He's still not believing that Jesus is God, right? Which is the whole purpose of the gospel of John. John showing us the deity of Christ. But he believes the belief, at least he believes he's a good teacher.

00;15;41;05 - 00;16;00;09
Nathan
Come from God, right? So, so so there's there's the start of that progression you talked about and and he's curious and he wants to know the truth. And here's the thing. When we seek it, when we want you know, the Bible says those who seek me will find me. Right. And Nicodemus starting out by seeking the truth, right.

00;16;00;12 - 00;16;26;08
Nathan
And and later we see him. So he goes to Jesus, and Jesus spends like 17, I think 18, 15, whatever a long chunk of time talking to Nicodemus more than he ever spoke to any of the other Pharisees right there. The Pharisees is like, you're a bunch of vipers. Off you go, whatever. You know what I mean? But but he spent so much time speaking with one of the most evangelical, chap passage of the scripture, John 316.

00;16;26;08 - 00;17;03;17
Nathan
Boom, right in that message to Nicodemus. Right. And then Nicodemus is is leaning in. So profiling people so often. Going back to your question is like, why we shouldn't we shouldn't profile people in categories because we know that God can save anyone out of any group. Right? You know, so so, Jesus profiled Rich. He said it's easier for for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

00;17;03;20 - 00;17;27;03
Nathan
And of course, then, in our wisdom, we say, well, then no rich person is going to heaven, right? And in fact, the disciples asked him, so, so who then can go to heaven? And Jesus said, with man it is impossible, but for God nothing is impossible, right? Basically saying, yeah, even rich people can come to me. It might be harder for them than than a poor person because they're relying on the riches and they don't really need God.

00;17;27;09 - 00;17;54;08
Nathan
That was the implication there. But to say that no God can. God can save anyone. He can save Nicodemus. He can save a rich person. He said, poor person. He can save, a prostitute, Rahab. You know, he. Yeah. And it's really not down to us. It's really up to God. So I think it's a great example of of how God can take anyone from any group that we've thrown out.

00;17;54;08 - 00;18;08;29
Nathan
It's like, well, they belong to that group. They're they're some whacked out belong to some whacked out cult, so why even bother? No. God can take someone from that whacked out cult and then draw him to himself. And guess what? They can be saved.

00;18;09;02 - 00;18;22;00
Brenton
Yeah, yeah, that's really good. Yeah. Okay, so you gave three different categories of people in this passage. You said there's deniers, there's seekers and believers.

00;18;22;21 - 00;18;30;19
Nathan
Actually, I said that the, the, the thirsty which are thirsty seekers because to go going in with the passage if you are thirsty, come. Yeah.

00;18;30;21 - 00;18;53;01
Brenton
So maybe I'm confusing your clay. Yeah. All right. So deniers thirsty and believers when thinking about evangelism how should we discuss these things with blatant deniers? You know, people who are unwilling to accept or even entertain the truth. Claims of Christianity.

00;18;53;03 - 00;19;20;07
Nathan
Yeah, that's a great question. Right? Do we waste our time now? First of all, you know where to speak. The word, to share the gospel throughout the whole world, go into all the world and preach the gospel? So that's our mission. Yeah. Now here's the thing. Do we grind our wheels over and over and over with the blatant denier and my my, my answer to this is no.

00;19;20;09 - 00;19;39;17
Nathan
And here's why I say that. Right. So so we we need to speak the truth in love. But the minute it gets into a heated debate and we know they're just, they're just going to debate their thing till they're dead in the ground and I can debate mine back. You know, all of a sudden we're not speaking the truth in love, and all of a sudden we're just working ourselves.

00;19;39;22 - 00;20;02;14
Nathan
And and Satan loves that because, you know what? I'm spending all my energy trying to convert somebody who they're they're they're they're. The more I debate with them, the more they're going to look up the the the reason. Now God can do anything with God. All things are possible. But for the most part, I'm wasting my. In fact, Jesus gave this advice to his disciples when he sent them out two by two.

00;20;02;15 - 00;20;06;05
Nathan
You remember this if you go into a town, right, and they listen to you.

00;20;06;09 - 00;20;07;28
Brenton
Knock the dust off your feet.

00;20;08;00 - 00;20;30;00
Nathan
No, if they stay with them, but if they don't, if they deny you, if then and I mean really shake the dust off your feet. Keep going. Why spend so much time wasting your time there when there's people who really are thirsty, who are really wanting to know, to don't waste your time. Satan wants us to waste our time.

00;20;30;02 - 00;20;33;16
Nathan
Let's not do it. That's Jesus advice. Yeah.

00;20;33;18 - 00;20;35;04
Brenton
Maybe not a popular opinion.

00;20;35;06 - 00;20;54;04
Nathan
No, no. I and and I can say this, person from my own personal experiences. Brennan, there's times where I've met with people that's like. Well, yeah, I don't believe in God or I. One guy even says, yeah, well, I'm Jesus. I'm like, you know what?

00;20;54;06 - 00;20;56;25
Brenton
I've heard that a couple times, too.

00;20;56;28 - 00;21;17;08
Nathan
You know, it says, really? Show me your hands where you start, you know? But but but really, The bottom line is, you know, I'll talk to them a few minutes, but I can. I can just see that, like. Okay, well, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. And I hope and I pray that that.

00;21;17;10 - 00;21;39;16
Nathan
Yeah, that something will change and we never know, but but we should feel actually instead of getting angry and upset about those people. Do you remember what Jesus said right after he said, dust, dust to dust off your feet and keep going? He said, because those people and on judgment days will be more accountable than the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

00;21;40;12 - 00;22;17;01
Nathan
So really, for those deniers, I mean, I should feel grief for them in that, in their denial of Christ and their in their adamant disposal to even think about God or who he is, their punishment is going to be source severe. I mean, I, I'm one of those people who actually believes in different degrees of punishment. I mean, and, you know, because, you know, we see different passages, you know, whereas but Jesus says, for for someone who causes easy little ones of mine to sin, it'll be worse for them then.

00;22;17;03 - 00;22;36;01
Nathan
Then it'll be better off. That never been. But, you know, different degrees of punishment depending. Now, if we trust Christ or there's a reward which is the opposite, right. Which is great, but. They will be worse off than the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. Yeah. I'm just like, wow.

00;22;36;03 - 00;22;38;25
Brenton
Wow. Yeah.

00;22;38;27 - 00;23;15;17
Nathan
I can only pray that their heart is changed. But me standing there arguing with him, it probably isn't going to make any difference. Now you know, on in all fairness, we do know people who have been deniers who've got saved for sure. Yeah. So we don't know that even that one conversation we've had that they were they were in my face opposed to what I'm saying, that God won't when they go back and cooled down and said that God won't use that as a seed that we have planted and God because because really the bottom line is this Britain, we don't save anyone with our with our great theological arguments.

00;23;15;22 - 00;23;19;18
Nathan
The Holy Spirit does the work. He's either going to convict them or not convict them anyway.

00;23;19;21 - 00;23;44;16
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. Well, I just even thinking about that passage, you know, it it gives, it gives an urgency to, to evangelism to, you know, because it is a essentially saying like, you know, look for a man of these, if you don't find it, move on. And it it's, it makes it. Yeah. Don't waste your time. Right.

00;23;44;22 - 00;23;59;16
Brenton
Yeah. But but yeah, like, our time is better spent, you know, with right. With people that will receive it. So, along with that then the people you put in the thirsty category, how does your approach change with them?

00;23;59;18 - 00;24;20;01
Nathan
Oh, it's so different. I mean, I mean, these people like the people in the passage we just talked about, you know, these are people are who are seeking the truth. They just they just haven't found it yet. You know? Is this the Christ? Is this the prophet? You know, like, looking back, we can see that the prophet, the promised prophet, and they were the one prophet, priest and king.

00;24;20;01 - 00;24;40;21
Nathan
This was Jesus. They didn't know that they were they still hadn't trusted him because they still didn't even really know who. But they're seeking, they're hungry. And and so we're going to come across all kinds of people that have been taught all kinds of different things. And, you know, I mean, they're messed up in their theology and they've got some messed.

00;24;40;23 - 00;24;58;09
Nathan
It's easy to to just, I mean, literally, I've, I've spoken with so many people, it's like, oh, well, yeah, this is what it is. And this is what I've learned. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second, hold on a second. Right. Let's see what God's word says. And I always point them back to that and they're like, oh, so what I learned isn't right.

00;24;58;09 - 00;25;19;29
Nathan
I'm like, yeah, I hate to tell you that, but the truth is, what is the truth? It is what comes from the Word of God. That's what he gave us. And and most of the time those people are like, oh, oh, so people who are really thirsty, who really seeking the truth, they're open to be able to learn the truth.

00;25;20;01 - 00;25;38;10
Nathan
And for those people, it's just a great opportunity to pour into them to to share the gospel with them. And those are the people that I believe are God, that God is calling. So if they're thirsty, if they are leaning in, oh yeah, spend the time. Yeah, share the gospel with them. And, we're going to see some fruit.

00;25;38;10 - 00;25;39;08
Nathan
I really believe that.

00;25;39;08 - 00;26;08;27
Brenton
Yeah. Just, a point of clarification here. I think, you know, before we started recording, we had a quick conversation about, you know, Romans three. Right. So Romans three says that there's no one who seeks for God. Right. And so how do we how do we reconcile? You know, someone who is, you know, we have these three different categories here, and I'm not sure that, you know, the seeker or the thirsty is necessarily an explicit category in Scripture.

00;26;08;27 - 00;26;17;00
Brenton
But this is someone that we would say, you know, the spirit as it is at work in. Yeah. But they're like, you know, the father is struggling.

00;26;17;02 - 00;26;21;05
Nathan
They're at least open to hearing the truth. Yeah. They're not a blatant denier.

00;26;21;05 - 00;26;32;12
Brenton
Right? Yeah, yeah. So again, you know, nobody nobody does seek God on their own. And like you said, we we can't save anyone. This is this is fully a work of the spirit. Right. And so yeah.

00;26;32;14 - 00;26;38;07
Nathan
So so really we could take that. Romans three says there is none who seek God. No. Not one. Right, right, right. Yeah.

00;26;38;09 - 00;26;39;21
Brenton
And absolutely true.

00;26;39;21 - 00;26;59;03
Nathan
But but but but then we also see other place where it says, if you seek me, you shall find me seek and you shall find. So, so so how, how do we how do we reconcile those two. And it's really because, yeah, we do seek God, but it's only because the spirit draws me to seek him and has self in my heart to do that.

00;26;59;03 - 00;27;03;16
Nathan
So. So there's, there's some some crossover there.

00;27;03;18 - 00;27;25;21
Brenton
Well, Romans three, the context of that is, you know, he's talking about unbelievers. He's talking about people in their natural state. Right? Right. Absolutely. And someone in their natural state does not seek for God. And they need a new heart to to be able to do that. Right. So. Right. Yeah. Good. Good clarification. All right. So at this point, in your message, you were pretty deep in metaphor.

00;27;25;21 - 00;27;51;02
Brenton
So just to just kind of preempt this, right. But your challenge to believers was to clean our sprinkler heads. Yeah. So if you haven't listened, to Nathan's message, which you should, that's going to make no sense to you. So essentially your point, came from verse 38 where Jesus says, out of his heart will flow rivers of living waters.

00;27;51;03 - 00;27;59;25
Brenton
And he's talking about believers here right. You were essentially calling believers to live in a way that makes the Holy Spirit evident in our lives.

00;27;59;27 - 00;28;00;11
Nathan
Right?

00;28;00;11 - 00;28;09;24
Brenton
So can you talk about this a little more? What work kinds of actions show others that that, you know, you've been changed by the spirit?

00;28;09;24 - 00;28;34;26
Nathan
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, you're right in saying if you didn't listen my sermon, this is going to make absolutely zero sense for you. And I'm actually going through I'm like, what would be a good metaphor to to be able to make a picture in people's minds, of, of how this might be and really what when, when Jesus says, if you believe so, so, that's the second next way.

00;28;34;26 - 00;28;58;04
Nathan
If you believe you will, you will. You will have rivers of living for water flowing from your heart. Right? Right. And I'm trying to think about what is that like, you know, I mean, well, first of all, if I'm thirsty, I'm dry. I'm looking for the trees. I'm looking for the water. But if I believe now I'm filled with water, so much so that that that I'm not thirsty anymore.

00;28;58;04 - 00;29;18;04
Nathan
So that's the first part of it, right? I'm not thirsty because I know the way, the truth and the life. I'm not thirsting for that anymore because I found it in Jesus Christ. But more than that now, to have rivers of living water flowing from you now, if it's flowing from you, it should be evident to other people, right?

00;29;18;07 - 00;29;38;27
Nathan
Yeah. So I use the metaphor and John actually says, this is the Holy Spirit, which you will have, which believers will have, you know, that they didn't have then, but they would have after Jesus had died. Rose again, you know, so so us being filled with the Holy Spirit, I put the metaphor is, is is like a watering can being filled with water.

00;29;38;27 - 00;30;06;08
Nathan
Right now, when we trust Christ, do we all have the spirit? Yeah. Is it is it like when I can be a little bit full or a lot full? No. We're all filled with the Holy Spirit. But then that the Bible talks about us being filled with the Holy Spirit in a way that is evident to others. It was kind of the thing is, is so how do we so new believers are often everybody knows are new believer because they're excited about their talent.

00;30;06;15 - 00;30;30;22
Nathan
They want people to know what Jesus has done for them. And it's exciting to see that. But after a while, it that flowing of the Holy Spirit that that evidence that they're their exercise minded about their faith starts to wane. And I and I put it like this sometimes, you know, are watering can that that leave we leave it out on the deck to water our plants.

00;30;30;22 - 00;30;49;26
Nathan
You know what I mean? In the middle of summer, some algae gets gets in the water, in the brine. What you were brand new holds that the living waters of streams would come, of water would come out and water the plants that come back to life. Right, affect other people. They get blocked up with algae and insects and because we haven't kept on clean.

00;30;50;19 - 00;31;08;29
Nathan
And but but spiritually in the same way, the spirit isn't evident anymore in the way we act. You know, we can go to church, we can go or we can go to work, I mean, and school and and to the park with our kids and friends. Nobody would ever know. We're a Christian. Yeah. And why is that?

00;31;08;29 - 00;31;31;11
Nathan
Because the Holy Spirit is not evident in the. So how do we get that flowing again? And just like we take a shower head and soak it in vinegar to to dissolve all the the sediment that's built up on it, we put it, it's gone. It goes. Great. What do we need to, to, to to soak our, sprinkler head?

00;31;31;11 - 00;31;33;28
Nathan
Spiritual sprinkler head here means that we're.

00;31;33;28 - 00;31;34;12
Brenton
In deep in.

00;31;34;12 - 00;32;00;16
Nathan
Metaphor. Yeah, yeah. And if you listen to my sermon. But what if we were to soak it in the word of God and clean it up, right, and clean it up? Because when it's when we're in the word of God that it starts changing us in a way that that that God doesn't work in our lives. And when we read the stories, it we start being getting excited, and then we start speaking the stories.

00;32;00;19 - 00;32;20;26
Nathan
It's quoting the Bible, you know? And I also used three guys in the Bible, Peter and Steve and, and Philip as examples that they were filled with the Holy Spirit. When Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit, what did he he got up and he started giving a history of the the Bible, you know, the same with with Stephen.

00;32;20;28 - 00;32;43;11
Nathan
I was well with Peter. What happened? 3000 people got saved, right? The Holy Spirit did the work. All he did is just start quoting the Bible. Stephen. Same thing started telling stories. The Bible. Now for him he got stoned to death. But in hindsight, we look back that and we. It's been such an encouragement for people to be bold to all the years.

00;32;43;11 - 00;33;01;23
Nathan
The Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit has even done with that story. But it said he was one of the deacons, along with Philip, who were the new disciples, and they picked people who are full of the Holy Spirit. So what did Philip do? He went to the road to on the. He met the youth, the Ethiopian eunuch right, who was reading Isaiah didn't.

00;33;01;25 - 00;33;19;16
Nathan
And Philip got up and explained it to him. He spoke the word. All these guys were speaking the word of God because they knew it. They were in it, you know. So if we're in the Word of God, guess what's going to happen? This is my this is my belief. When we're in the word of God, we're going to start speaking.

00;33;19;16 - 00;33;26;00
Nathan
We're going to start sharing the stories we're going to share with. And the Holy Spirit will do the work. It's going to be evident.

00;33;26;02 - 00;33;26;16
Brenton
Yeah.

00;33;26;19 - 00;33;52;13
Nathan
For what? And it's it's like or streams or living water will be flowing from us in a way that the Holy Spirit is using the words we say to really change people. Yeah, yeah, I know it's a big metaphor, but in my mind is like, how can I how can I describe this in a way that's going to be a visual, visual thing for people to sort of say, so how can I let the Holy Spirit be seen through me?

00;33;52;15 - 00;34;02;28
Brenton
Yeah, yeah, I think I said this a couple of weeks ago to it seems like most of our applications out of this podcast is, read your Bibles. So read your Bibles, everybody.

00;34;03;22 - 00;34;05;01
Nathan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true.

00;34;05;02 - 00;34;09;05
Brenton
You know, you had a lot to cover this week.

00;34;09;06 - 00;34;12;04
Nathan
Oh, my goodness, nearly 30 years. I think it was 28 verses. It was.

00;34;12;10 - 00;34;13;01
Brenton
It was a time so.

00;34;13;01 - 00;34;13;18
Nathan
Much. Yeah.

00;34;13;18 - 00;34;32;28
Brenton
Right. And and there's so much more that we could have gotten into today. You know, even as you're talking about Pentecost like that, there's such a good foreshadowing of, by Jesus on that. He's going to pour out his spirit here, right? Yeah. And so, you know, there's just there's so much foreshadowing in this, in this passage. It's it's really rich.

00;34;32;28 - 00;34;33;19
Brenton
But yeah.

00;34;33;22 - 00;34;51;29
Nathan
So, so, so, so even in that, you know, what I mean is so much was so clay went down the path, of the Trinity. Yeah. You know, so here was Jesus and the spirit, which he was, telling was going to be available. Right. And here's God the Father, who Jesus was the Son of God the Father.

00;34;51;29 - 00;35;06;26
Nathan
So he actually went down that I I'm like, I don't have time to go here. So I basically said, you know, in my in my wrap up, I said, you know what? If you're thirsty, if you're seeking like some of these, you have you have great questions like, how can Jesus be God when he's a son of God?

00;35;07;01 - 00;35;15;06
Nathan
He's a great he's part of the Trinity. But another discussion for another day, right? So much more. We could have got out of here.

00;35;15;06 - 00;35;19;04
Brenton
But yeah, but exegesis is hard when you're doing 30 verses and 45 minutes.

00;35;19;04 - 00;35;20;22
Nathan
So we do what we can do.

00;35;20;23 - 00;35;42;27
Brenton
That's right. Well, I, I'm thankful for your work and for Clay. Really enjoyed, these messages. Yeah. I guess for you guys at home, if you have any questions for, for us, feel free to send in an email, ask it further. Podcast.com. Really appreciate you coming in today. And we will, be back next week with.

00;35;42;27 - 00;35;44;27
Nathan
Our first sermons.

00;35;44;27 - 00;35;47;20
Brenton
In the series. So look forward to talking to them. But.