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Brenton
Welcome back to further. I am Brenton Grimm and welcome back to Chris Carr. You're back in.

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Chris
Studio. Yeah, it's good to be back.

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Brenton
And I got you trapped for seven weeks now.

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Chris
Yeah, actually, it's more than that. But we won't tell anybody. This show can't.

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Brenton
Get anyone.

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Chris
Outside. In all seriousness, I'm now in one of the longest stretch of preaching a literally ever done, especially for for quite a while. I think it's not going to be nine weeks in a row. So. Wow. This series and then Easter and then we come back from, Easter. And the first passage is that John eight. Passage with a woman caught in adultery.

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Chris
And obviously, I.

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Brenton
Gotta say, I've been curious of how you're going.

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Chris
To handle that. Well, you know, some textual issues potentially there. And so, yeah. So I figured maybe I should be the one to tackle that, because it'll be celebration Sunday for us to, you know, just, praise the Lord and celebrate what he's done through all in. And, so, yeah, it's going to be a long stretch and it'll be good.

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Chris
So you'll be seeing a lot of me from it.

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Brenton
I'm glad, you know. So, yeah. Week one of, All in is over. Would you, would you think how to go?

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Chris
I think I would pretty well, at least it, seems, So from what I'm hearing so far, this is a little bit different. I think everybody probably recognize it wasn't the typical, you know, harmony, Chris car message for sure. You know, we were, in a number of different passages, and then we also, you know, had, I was a little more, maybe back to my, teaching days and, like, turn to this page and let's write these words down and things like that.

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Chris
But, I think it was good. I think, was good way to start and get us going, and we'll get back, a little bit more to Norm this week as we, dive into that Mark 12 passage and, and really begin to do a deep dive into it. And what what does it mean? So probably seem like a little bit more normal.

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Chris
Yeah. This week.

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Brenton
Yeah. No, it did feel like the energy was different this this week. It was it was good. And you know, I think people have been looking forward to starting this for a while. I know I'm sitting next to my son during your message, and it's the most notes I've ever seen him take on anything so good. That was that was pretty cool.

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Chris
Yeah.

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Brenton
And people digging in.

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Chris
I think that maybe this is already evident, but that this series is, the fruit of, a lot of, my really own journey. And, not only personally, but also ministry. And so this theme of transformation is one that, has been deeply, significant for me, really literally from the day that I began, here.

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Chris
So my first message at Harmony, back in August of 2011, which was hard to hard to believe that it's been that long now is was literally a message about transformation. So, in some ways, this is nothing. Nothing new, at least on my heart. Just, Yeah, yeah, accumulation of a lot of a lot of years.

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Chris
A lot a lot of work, both personally and and professionally.

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Brenton
Cool. Well, let's, start with, I guess one of the elephants in the room. How about that? You know, a large part of this journey is, is the ministry expansion piece, which will be accomplished through, building projects. And, you know, infrastructure projects need to happen in Danville and Burlington. Offices and counseling services in, are going in and mediapolis.

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Brenton
And then, you know, most significantly, the Fort Madison campus is moving to Richardson Elementary. Understandably, there can be some some hesitation and spending this much money on facilities. And so, yeah, just wanted to hear your thoughts on that, you know, what's the reason for investing so much money in facilities and, and, you know, not other means of ministry.

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Brenton
Yeah.

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Chris
Well, first I would say that the questions hesitation, concern, all of that is welcome. Understandable. I think the question is, is one that needs to be asked, and is we're trying to, you know, be good stewards and, and it's legitimate. It's a lot of, it's a lot of money. And so I don't think it's something we should, you know, just pass over lightly.

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Chris
And it's definitely something that the elders have wrestled with in some ways for years and specifically, very, very, very much over the last years, we've, just been considering what the Lord would have us to do. I think I would also say that it's just expensive right now. Inflation is a real thing, especially building materials. And this is, this has ever since really Covid, and just continues now with, you know, everything that's going on economically.

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Chris
And so, that number is bigger than significantly bigger than it would have been five years ago. Right. And and so that's a, that's a part of the future. But at the end of the day, the reality of ministry in 21st century America, and so context, like, we have to minister in the context that God has placed this in and the reality, today, is that many people are going to come to faith in, in Christ inside of, of facility.

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Chris
And most everyone, is going to and almost is going to be a necessity for them to be discipled, shepherded inside of a facility. So, I personally, believe that the church is the means that God uses to, see people, the gospel go out, and then the people, once they are, become believers is to disciple them and to help them to grow and to be transformed into the image of Christ.

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Chris
And that doesn't mean that that all happens inside of a, a building, and nor should it. But, but but a lot of it does in like our our preaching. We need to, you know, individually we all need to be proclaiming the gospel. But the preaching of the gospel is going to happen first and foremost inside of a facility.

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Chris
And, and, and and to be honest with you, and in some ways, that's the way that it's, it's been throughout the history of the church. And so you get this idea like this, the early church, they, they met in homes. They did. But but if you read acts, they also went to where the preaching began was in the temple courts.

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Chris
They went to to the temple. They went to a they went to a building, and then still the churches, they still met inside of, inside of a building. And, and so, yeah, we need, again, it's not something that we just like, say, yeah, whatever the gospel, whatever, you know, you know that. But the reality is, is that, the in the history of our church is, is that the gospel has gone forth from, harmony Bible Church, as the church has faithfully over the years, built larger and larger or more and more facilities, more and more people have come.

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Chris
More and more people have been saved. More and more lives have been transformed. And so this isn't like we've tried to sell this. This isn't anything new for our church. This is just this is just the next step in the journey. Maybe the maybe the biggest step, certainly finding it from a financial standpoint. But yeah, you know.

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Brenton
Yeah. Well something you've you've brought up a lot recently has been even the example of this building we're in right now, the Burlington campus. Like the you know, it was it was a big project at that point for sure. But the amount of ministry we see here every single day is, is really you know, I don't I don't know if we would have really expected to see this much stuff happening in this building.

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Brenton
And so.

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Chris
Yeah, I mean, we had on Sunday, just a few people shy of 900 people at our Burlington campus. And, that's in the scant span of we've been in here almost eight years now. We started roughly around 300 at all, though. And so it's you're talking about tripling and, this is not just people just coming, like we're just we just got more people.

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Chris
These are people literally on a week by week basis who are being saved and lives are being changed and transformed and just incredible stories. And so, there is a cost to that. But, I, me, I get ahead of myself. We spend a lot of money as as American Christians. And what what's going to be the best way to to spend it and invest the money?

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Chris
And some people, you know the question. Well, why don't we spend it on overseas ministry? And that's a great question. We're doing that too. I mean, we will spend roughly half $1 million just this year and on global ministries and with plans to spend a lot more as the that becomes yeah, you know, possible or the relationships and we got people to send out and all that kind of stuff.

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Chris
So it's not an either or. It's a both and yeah.

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Brenton
Okay. Yeah. Thanks for thanks for that response. All right. So getting into the message a little bit, you you mentioned that we are always being formed, you know, either transformed into Christ's likeness or malformed by the world. And, you know, formation can often happen subtly without us even realizing it. What are some practical ways that someone can assess, you know, what what the things are that are shaping them spiritually?

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Chris
Well, I, let's. Yeah, maybe a couple of ways to answer that. One maybe sounds oversimplistic, but you you need to first of all, really look at the kind of person that you are becoming. And we can go to passages like, Galatians five and are we evidencing the fruit of the spirit of the fruit of the flesh?

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Chris
Yes. And, and so, and, you know, the, the degree to which it's one or the other will give you a good indication of what possibly may be forming you and Paul in that Romans 12 passage we looked at Sunday talks about they'll be conformed to the world. So the world is will either be formed like by the world or were formed by the spirit and, and the things that the spirit uses into the image of, of Christ.

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Chris
So, if you want to get more specific, I, you can look at and I like what, what am I giving myself to, you know, where, where am I, where am I spending my time? Or, we talked about abiding in Christ. I think we're going to get back to that maybe here a little bit, but abiding means to make your home in.

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Chris
So like, think about where you where do you just most naturally turn to? Where do you feel comfortable? Where is that place that you you dwell and, you know that that will give you a really good indicator of, of what's was forming you. And, and so I mentioned, I don't know that I mentioned it in both, messages on Sunday, but, the average American spending eight hours a day on their phone, that's how much time is spent on their phone.

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Chris
Well, you know, and not that it's all bad. I mean, obviously there's we've got Bible apps and podcasts and all that kind of stuff, so that could be really, really good stuff. But I doubt that that, you know, I think even being honest. So we spending most of that time, you know, reading the Bible and listening to Sister bins or are we on social media and Amazon and all of those kind of things, and you, you, we to realize, this is getting a little bit deeper.

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Chris
We have, you know, we have a, an eco economic system is based on like, just like purchase once, like the advertising, drives us to want more and to be dissatisfied and discontent. And it if you. I'm not on social media a ton. I think most people recognize that but I, I it just inundated with it's just ad after ad after ad anymore and all of a sudden you're like, I didn't know that I needed that, but.

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Brenton
Now I feel like.

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Chris
I do need it. Yeah, right. And need, and we laugh about that stuff, but, but but you also talk about like, also on social media, all of these. And I've seen this recently, like with everything going, I just use, use for example, this whole thing with Zelensky and in the white House and you just, I mean like people to that.

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Chris
What is that? Do what is that doing to us. Is it it it's it's literally I mean, making this angry, angry, anxious. And so, maybe I'm not directly answering the question or I hope I'm making getting the point through is, is like, if we're spending hours and hours and hours on, you know, whatever you spend your time on is what's going to for me at the end of the day.

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Chris
Like, I mean, it's just a simple thing is like, if you go to the gym 2 or 3 hours a day and you actually are doing more than just standing around talking with people or whatever, if you're actually working out, it's going to form you into, you know, a into a person who is, you know, healthier, stronger and all that and that.

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Chris
That's that's the way that it works.

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Brenton
That's the concept of you are what you eat, right? The I mean, it's whatever you're feeding yourself all the time is what you're going to become. And so, yeah, so, you know, the, the specific, you know, habits that you, the talk that you talk about and the, the there's there's a lot of things that is in our, the, our interface all the time.

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Brenton
I do like how you, you know, you were talking about a and we'll talk about it a little bit later. But the idea, the idea of like, what do we run to? You know what? When we're when we're in uncomfortable times or whatever. What what is our, what gives us comfort and maybe, maybe that's good things.

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Brenton
Maybe it's maybe it's not things and good things, but I think it's a good way to think about it. So, you know, once, once somebody recognizes they're unhealthy influences in their lives, what are some tangible steps they can take to to kind of reorient themselves toward spiritual transformation?

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Chris
Yeah. I, I think this is why this concept that I introduced on Sunday of, of a practice like you, you, again, if you want to use sports analogy, if you're going to, be be good at something, you have to to practice it. You're our habits form us. Yeah, I practice when I say habit, practice spiritual disciplines or just we are we all have habits, practices, some type of disciplines.

00;16;21;05 - 00;16;41;05
Chris
Whether you think that you're a disciplined person or not, you have things that you regularly give yourself to, and those things are going to be the things that form you into the kind of person that that you are. So think about commitments. Your commitments are what will ultimately form you into the kind of person that you are becoming.

00;16;41;07 - 00;17;01;28
Chris
Okay, what am I committed to? And and so what we we have to do then is we have to look in Scripture and we have to say, what are the kind of things that, form us into to people of, of, of love, love God and love others, people who are like Jesus and and all those kind of things.

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Chris
And one of the ways we can do that is like, what are the things that Jesus practices, that he habits he gave himself to? And as you read the Gospels, it'll say things like, Jesus went to the synagogue, as was his habit, or Jesus would often go to, you know, off by himself to pray. Jesus was being tempted by the devil.

00;17;21;22 - 00;17;40;26
Chris
He would quote, quote, Scripture like. And so you can just kind of see those kind of things. Now, I think we we can have a natural aversion to what I'm talking about here because of this issue of legalism. You think we got to do these or these are the things like these are the things that doing them makes us holy.

00;17;40;26 - 00;18;05;06
Chris
No, no, no, it's not it's not the doing of them. That does it. It is it is putting ourselves in a place where the Holy Spirit can transform us. And I, I think there's a really, really important distinction here. So I just want to say that say it again, putting ourself in the place, of accessing the things that the Holy Spirit uses to change us.

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Chris
So reading the the by like reading the Bible, me doing reading the Bible, it's like I just need to read the Bible. No, it's it's yes, the Bible is what the Holy Spirit uses to to to to change. It's one of the main means as it, so it's not a legalistic thing. I got to do it.

00;18;25;09 - 00;18;53;08
Chris
I got to do it. But recognizing, yes, that these are the means of the Holy Spirit. So we're going to look this week. We'll get to first Corinthians 13, which is the known as the love chapter. And, and, but leading into chapter 13, Paul, literally in the very last verse of verse, chapter 12, he says, now I want to show you the most more excellent way.

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Chris
So in chapter 12, he's talking about like spiritual gifts and things like this. And, and the real issue for the Corinthian church is that they're, they're arguing over who has the greater gifts. And they want this gift and they want this gift. And so Paul's addressing that chapter 12. And, and really he's he's actually getting on them.

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Chris
And then he says at the end, I want to show you the more excellent way. So there's a way of love. So what we're talking about here is how do I walk in the way of, of love and the things that what are the things that make me will, will shape me, the Holy Spirit will use to shape me into a loving person.

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Brenton
Yeah, yeah, I, I was really glad that you hit that pretty hard on Sunday. It was just, you know, this this journey is it's easy for us to look at this of like, okay, this is going to help me do different things instead of, you know, the the goal here is that we recognize that God loves us first.

00;19;54;28 - 00;20;20;01
Brenton
And then out of that is is where all of these, these actions flow. And so, you know, if if you are someone that's struggling with spiritual disciplines, the answer isn't first and foremost necessarily to just do better at it. Right? It's to find, find the desire in, in the love of God. Right. And so, yeah, I was really glad that you.

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Chris
Yeah, that I mean, one other passage, second Corinthians 318. We all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another. So there's a lot there, like, you know, like, what's this veiling face and all kind of stuff. We won't get into that. It's a little bit of a longer explanation other than this.

00;20;41;29 - 00;21;12;25
Chris
Simply say, now, as believers, we can clearly see Jesus, okay? And and as we as we behold him, which means is as we, we will see his greatness and his glory in the gospel, we are transformed into his likeness. And so what? These spiritual habits, disciplines, practices, whatever word you want to use, they're, are is there ways in which we, behold, abide in the love of Jesus?

00;21;12;25 - 00;21;18;20
Chris
Because that's what transforms us, his love, not us doing something.

00;21;18;23 - 00;21;47;11
Brenton
Yeah. Good. Okay, so you you contrasted transactional faith with transformational faith. The idea, you know, that many people, approach faith as a one time transaction rather than a lifelong transformation. I, I want to hit on a little bit of the. So how how does this limited view of faith impact, you know, somebody's spiritual growth?

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Chris
It's short circuited. Yeah, sure.

00;21;50;06 - 00;21;52;06
Brenton
Yeah.

00;21;52;09 - 00;22;22;19
Chris
And I don't know how many people I've interacted with over the years who have this idea that, you know, I, I prayed a prayer, ask Jesus into my heart, I'm going to heaven and I'm good. And, if that's the mentality, it's actually not the gospel, to be honest with you. But, it just is like, I don't need to I don't I don't need to grow.

00;22;22;19 - 00;22;31;15
Chris
The guy is not really all that interested in me growing. And so I get my like, it's not that important. So. Yeah. Yeah.

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Brenton
So I guess the question that I want to get to is like, how can we, as believers, help other people recognize this in themselves? How can we help disciple other people through this as we as we see this kind of transactional view of? Because, I mean, we we live in America, right? This is this is not an uncommon thing to view Christianity this way.

00;22;52;17 - 00;22;56;02
Brenton
How can we help disciple people through that?

00;22;56;04 - 00;23;22;02
Chris
Well, I think that there's a number of different answers to that question. And one thing I think it's, to say and hopefully to show them that, Jesus wants us to have an abundant life, which means like a love that where we experience, the fruit of the spirit. And when I say experience it, yes, display it.

00;23;22;02 - 00;23;47;25
Chris
But like, we actually there's love, joy, peace, patience, longsuffering, those kind of things. And like, just encourage them, like, is this is this, is this where you're at? I mean, do you see these things in increasing measure? Do you want do you want these things? Another place we can go is to talk about, talk about it in terms of the kingdom of God, which Jesus addresses right off the bat in his sermon on the Mount.

00;23;47;27 - 00;24;13;19
Chris
You know, his most probably important, like teaching and and he starts with those beatitudes, and blessed are the blessed are the blessed are like that were means happy. Not like happy go lucky, but but really more of a joyful like this is the blessed life. And it's it's things like humility and and mercy and meekness, which is, which is gentleness and strength.

00;24;13;19 - 00;24;37;09
Chris
All wrapped up in one peacemaker, you know, all those kind of things. And like, Jesus saved you to experience these things. And he case in the way he's talked about on Sunday. Jesus didn't just save you so you could go to heaven. He he he saved us. So we heaven I see the kingdom, okay? And and Jesus say to so we can experience the kingdom.

00;24;37;09 - 00;24;56;01
Chris
Now we're supposed to pray thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And that's where I think this kingdom language is actually probably better than than heaven language or the kingdom of heaven maybe is more helpful. It's like we we've just done this is giving people this idea like it's about going to heaven one day.

00;24;56;01 - 00;25;23;17
Chris
It's about going to heaven one day, and and it's heaven somewhere out there. And it's in it for another life. And and the reality is the kingdom is already but not. Yeah, we've talked about this on the podcast a number of different times is like Jesus, when he came, he said the repent for the kingdom of God is at hand and he wants us to experience heaven today, now, not in we want in fullness, and we're still got sin and death and all of those kind of things.

00;25;23;17 - 00;25;47;19
Chris
But that doesn't mean that we can't experience it in part. And that's what what? Jesus, Jesus came and, you know, one of the most famous moments for Jesus is in Nazareth. He pulls out the scroll of Isaiah and he starts singing, you know, he starts reading it off, you know, and in talking about all of these things, I came to give sight to the blind and all of these kind of thing.

00;25;47;19 - 00;26;23;28
Chris
And he says, and this day is being fulfilled right now, they go throw them off the cliff because they knew what he would say. Yeah. Okay. So, and now again, Jesus didn't mean that that like, it's all it's heaven. Like, it's perfectly like it's fullness here. We know that because there's still a lot of mess going on, including, you know, him being crucified, but like and so, I don't know, I, I get very passionate about this because I think it's it we just have sold the gospel short and and selling the gospel short.

00;26;23;28 - 00;26;32;03
Chris
We have sold ourself short, and yeah, yeah.

00;26;32;06 - 00;26;52;11
Brenton
So there's a lot we could talk about there, I think, I think the, you know, the, the sentiment hits. Well, I think it's so easy for us to view heaven is just an escape from something. And we're we're just avoiding something instead of, you know, trying to realize the the fullness of. Of what? That, what that actually means for us.

00;26;52;17 - 00;27;26;04
Chris
Yeah. You're getting me to preach to this whole sermon series before, week two, but that's fine. I, I here is something I'm excited about. I think that people are are beginning more and more, or at least I'm seeing people more and more are getting tired of what the world has to offer and maybe even what they've even heard in the church before in terms of, like, just the world does it.

00;27;26;04 - 00;27;59;03
Chris
It's just not satis. It's not. It's not doing it. Yeah. And the church, what they maybe have heard in the church before of like again this pray the prayer trust in Jesus. You're going to heaven. But we don't have any thing for you right now. They're just like, there, there's there's so much more. And I think what's excites me about this series is like, people could be awakened to that and, and really begin to experience what, what it means to know and follow Jesus and the, the blessings that come from it here now.

00;27;59;03 - 00;28;27;12
Chris
And I especially see this with our young people is like they, they're they're actually, you know, they're much more, I think, cynical about the world and the American way like this way than, previous generations. I think that that's a good thing. Interestingly enough, I know I'm going all over the place today, but. But Pew, one of the primary church like, research, it's like the Barna Group.

00;28;27;19 - 00;28;44;07
Chris
It came up with a report last week that shows that church, attendance, the decline has stabilized. And so it doesn't seem like Christianity in America, is as dead is,

00;28;44;09 - 00;28;51;07
Brenton
Is that is that sort of by generations to you? It seems like, you know, we have younger generations getting more and more.

00;28;51;10 - 00;29;12;29
Chris
I haven't read all of it, looked at all of it, but it's fast. It's actually fascinating because for years now there has been a steady decline, especially post-Covid, of church attendance. And church attendance is just obviously just one metric. But, but it's really interesting that it's, it's it's, it's stabilizing. Yeah.

00;29;13;01 - 00;29;19;17
Brenton
So you're going to be a post millennial soon.

00;29;19;19 - 00;29;20;13
Brenton
All right, moving past.

00;29;20;14 - 00;29;24;09
Chris
That, taking the bait. And,

00;29;24;11 - 00;29;44;02
Brenton
You know, the the topic of abiding and God's love, like we talked about earlier, was really taken from John 15. Is, you know, it's so important to the Christian life, but I think it's sometimes can be viewed very abstractly as well. Like maybe we it sounds good, but we don't really have an understanding of what it is.

00;29;44;02 - 00;29;54;04
Brenton
And so you gave a little bit of it earlier, but practically like what should abiding in, in Jesus, what should that look like for us.

00;29;54;06 - 00;30;20;09
Chris
Yeah, I think the one of the challenges with the word buy it is it's not a word that, we use, you know, regularly. So, it can maybe seem a little foreign. I really think maybe the best way to think about it is, is like, if you are going to. Get to know somebody, you have to spend time with them.

00;30;20;09 - 00;30;52;02
Chris
You know, you know, or, or if you're going to imitate somebody. So, we're called, you know, Paul says actually in, first Corinthians, that we are to imitate, he calls the Corinthians to imitate him as he imitates Christ. So follow me as I follow Christ. If we're going to imitate somebody, we have to spend time around them so that we know what they are.

00;30;52;09 - 00;31;22;22
Chris
They are like what they what they do, you know, what their characters like and, and and what they like and all of those kind of things. And so I just it it's really just spending time with, with him. And, that means that we do that spending time in the word and in prayer and against things like silence and solitude and, and, yeah, there's there's more I can and will say on that.

00;31;22;22 - 00;31;46;11
Chris
But, again, I think that the one of the biggest challenges, maybe even the starting point on this is I didn't I didn't really get into this on Sunday. Take reminded me earlier that, my message was that you, that everybody maybe my message was, long.

00;31;46;14 - 00;32;27;12
Chris
So, it's not simply adding more stuff to our, plate, like more things to do. Right? Like, you just need to add this to it. In some ways, this is going to begin with. We got to cut cut things out so that we have more. So we're doing less not more. And I think that that's really it's been a huge and is still is a challenge for me is not to like I don't know about you, Brian, but I, I can very easily if, if I don't have something to do, feel like something's wrong.

00;32;27;14 - 00;33;10;01
Chris
Yep. Like sitting still, like slowing down and all of that. And, and so there's this creating this, this space. In along with that, though, I would add this, abiding I for for me is partly is, is in is looking to to Christ looking to Jesus in in the things that I'm already ready doing and enjoying trying to enjoy his presence to to think of him, to reflect on him like as I'm, as I'm running, you know, maybe he's I got free time in the car or drive in from one place to to another.

00;33;10;01 - 00;33;14;27
Chris
Maybe that means shutting off the podcast or the music or whatever. And just, like.

00;33;15;03 - 00;33;16;06
Brenton
Not this podcast.

00;33;16;08 - 00;33;40;13
Chris
No, no, no, we should listen to this multiple times every week. But, yeah, it's so I again, I feel like I'm a little bit of all over the place here, but I it's it is, it's a mixture, I think, of not doing so much cutting some things out that are and they might even be good, but they're just not the best.

00;33;40;13 - 00;34;04;13
Chris
And they're just they're just more stuff to do. And then making sure that we have time to place ourself in the places and in the things where God, in the love of Jesus can, can really transform our hearts. And like I said, the baby steps, it might for for most, for most, for most of us.

00;34;04;13 - 00;34;06;12
Chris
Yeah, yeah.

00;34;06;15 - 00;34;24;10
Brenton
Yeah. I actually had a question that was going to continue. And your baby steps thing, which incidentally, is, it always surprises me a little bit when I, realized that I think we have the same taste in, in comedy movies. I don't know why that's a surprise to me, but.

00;34;24;12 - 00;34;25;03
Chris
Yeah.

00;34;25;06 - 00;34;26;07
Brenton
Some good classics there.

00;34;26;08 - 00;34;54;20
Chris
Yeah, but I, I do think it's, maybe I think it's a better illustration than anybody else does, but I, I think one of the challenges, and I'm going to keep pressing this week after week after week, but of, of like we have to make some choices here about forming some of these practices habits in our, in our lives.

00;34;54;22 - 00;35;18;18
Chris
But we can get it. We can be all or nothing. Like if I can't, like, go like all in, you know, to use the phrase, like I can't spend and 30 minutes a day is too hard. Like, if I can't do 30 minutes, I'm not going to do anything. And it's just literally, we can feel guilty or we can even feel shame is like, if I get, you know, I can't even do five minutes.

00;35;18;18 - 00;35;48;18
Chris
I'm struggling at five minutes. Okay. With this? It's okay. You know, start with what you what you can do and do that and, and then allow the spirit to work and to move and to keep moving, you know, taking the next step forward and and another. So the last analogy or illustration I'll use is you've heard how, you know, how do you eat an elephant.

00;35;48;21 - 00;35;49;01
Brenton
One but.

00;35;49;07 - 00;36;18;24
Chris
One bite at a time. And I think that when people consider like Bible reading, prayer, quiet time, silence, all that kind of stuff, that seems like this massive elephant, like a how in the world can I just I just can't, it seems like too much. But but you don't have to, you know, be what we might consider a saint like one of these saints on day one or.

00;36;18;24 - 00;36;22;06
Chris
Or on any day, for that matter. So.

00;36;22;09 - 00;36;44;19
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's it is easy to find our worth and and what we do. Right. So yeah, understanding that we don't we don't need to do that. We know baby steps are good. So. Okay, well, we'll wrap it up there, but, Thank you. If you do have any questions, just encourage you to email us, ask it further podcast.com.

00;36;44;26 - 00;36;45;24
Chris
Yeah. Okay.

00;36;45;26 - 00;36;47;06
Brenton
All right. Talk to you guys next week.

00;36;47;06 - 00;36;47;19
Chris
You see him.