00;00;40;22 - 00;00;44;28
Brenton. Brennan. Grim. Chris, how are you doing?

00;00;45;00 - 00;00;49;03
Chris
Great. It's, beautiful outside. Spring is here.

00;00;49;05 - 00;00;49;21
Brenton
Best time of.

00;00;49;21 - 00;01;10;25
Chris
Year. We have an extra hour of daylight. Now's not really coming out, Well, you know, I say that because I just, you know, I heard somebody this week say, oh, man, it's great. We get an extra hour of daylight now, a daylight savings. And I'm like, that's not how it works. But, yeah. Yeah.

00;01;10;25 - 00;01;13;00
Brenton
So daylight savings. What are your thoughts on it?

00;01;13;03 - 00;01;29;26
Chris
I think we should just get rid of it once and for all. But yeah, I don't I don't understand. We agree like in the fall is great, but like this Sunday just yet. Yeah. It's Sunday. Start really early for me to begin with. And essentially my son, they started at 430.

00;01;29;26 - 00;01;34;00
Brenton
So mine I wasn't that early, but I know I didn't want to get out of bed.

00;01;34;05 - 00;01;44;27
Chris
Yeah, yeah. And I think we had, a few people who maybe just said they were just going to stay home, or maybe they forgot about it until it's too late.

00;01;45;01 - 00;01;48;21
Brenton
So that'll happen. But. Yeah. All right, we'll play daylight. So you catch.

00;01;48;21 - 00;01;53;09
Chris
Them back in November.

00;01;53;11 - 00;02;11;07
Brenton
I did want to, just talk about an event. We have we have coming up, the advanced commitment event. I know some, communication has given been given about that, but can you just kind of give us an idea of what it is? But why is it different than some of the other things we're doing?

00;02;11;10 - 00;02;30;22
Chris
Yeah, we're going to ask people to consider just coming out and, making their commitment, ahead of time, to kind of help us get the ball rolling, for the financial component of our all in, journey. But it's not just going to be a time where you come hand in a commitment card or anything like that.

00;02;30;22 - 00;02;49;23
Chris
We're we're actually going to worship together. We're going to have some fellowship, a little bit of food, and then we're actually going to have an experience where we're going to just, have the opportunity to hear more stories about, how God is working through his church and, how we have the opportunity to be, a part of it.

00;02;49;23 - 00;03;25;01
Chris
And actually, I'm pretty excited about it because I'm, I'm, going to try to we are going to try to give people a little bit of an experience of of what I, get to, be a part of each Sunday and, maybe that will not be a way to encourage people to come. So, yeah, that'd be cool if you went to preach when I was talking about standing up and, you know, preaching or standing up in front of everybody, but really to hopefully, work a little bit through my eyes is what I get to see when I, when I look at all that, our congregation and just see people knowing

00;03;25;01 - 00;03;49;15
Chris
their stories and the, the, the joy that's there in knowing how God is, is and has worked in their lives. And so, I think it's gonna be a special, special night. We'll go on very long. Actually, it's going to be afternoon and evening. We're running a bunch of, of them, and we'll get more details out, but, it'll be the afternoon and the evening of April 6th.

00;03;49;17 - 00;04;03;11
Brenton
Yeah. Great. Yeah. You get a unique view every Sunday with, I mean, you, you know, a lot of the people obviously is as a pastor and, you know, their stories. And so this will be an a cool opportunity to hear some of those. Yeah.

00;04;03;14 - 00;04;07;03
Chris
Yeah. And and you have a part of it I do have. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

00;04;07;05 - 00;04;22;21
Brenton
So we got lots of stories and so it's I don't know, I, I love that part of my job and able to get to know, the people of this church and to see how, how God's working through them. Yeah. It's crazy. Yes. You know what? What's going on around us that we wouldn't know otherwise? Yeah.

00;04;22;27 - 00;04;30;13
Chris
So it's my eyes and your, like, video recorder or, and Mike that you put in people's faces. Something like that.

00;04;30;19 - 00;04;54;10
Brenton
So I put a lot of Mike, some from people. All right. So you're giving principle this week was stewardship. You used, Genesis one as a scriptural basis for it. What what other examples in Scripture are there on this topic? And you know, how how was this idea of stewardship thought of in the New Testament?

00;04;54;12 - 00;05;20;10
Chris
Yeah, sure. One key passage for me, first Corinthians four seven, very quick snippet where Paul says, what do you have that you did not receive? And so the, the Corinthians, a wealthy church, a talented church, a relatively big church for, for that time period. And, they let it go to their heads.

00;05;20;13 - 00;05;45;25
Chris
And so he has he had a way of doing, especially with the Corinthians. He kind of just put them in their place a little bit and says, okay, you're Bray and I'm boasting and all about this stuff, but what what do you have, what of that, you know, was not given to you? And so the point is, is that everything that you have time, talents, treasure, it's it's it's not ultimately yours has been given to you from above.

00;05;45;27 - 00;06;14;27
Chris
Predominantly in the New Testament, though, this, stewardship concept is taught by Jesus and it's taught by excuse me and taught by Jesus repeatedly. In his parables. And we could we could go through, these there's the parable of the talents. There's the parable, the dishonest, dishonest manager. And then there is the, parable of the faithful steward and the unfaithful steward.

00;06;14;29 - 00;06;38;22
Chris
A key passage if you just want to go to one, is really Luke 12, where Jesus addresses this topic a couple of times, and in 42 through 48 in particular, is, you know, he's he's talking about, he and he actually asks a question, who then is this faithful and wise manager? So that's a manager steward whom his master hosts, who will set over his, household to give him their portion of food at the proper time.

00;06;38;22 - 00;07;04;09
Chris
And so the point there is, is that, God sets this over, you know, certain certain things, households, so to speak. And he's given them to us to, to manage. And, and these households are, are different. Some are larger than others. But that's not the point as how much we've been given. It's what we do with what we've been given.

00;07;04;11 - 00;07;30;21
Chris
And and so and Jesus really has some pretty strong things to say, about those who do not steward well. So really encouraging things to those who do steward, the resources as well. But, those who don't, you know, Jesus really doesn't pull any punches. And we won't go into, today, but but generally it's like, hey, you steward.

00;07;30;21 - 00;07;55;09
Chris
Well, there's going to be blessings. There's going to be rewards. And if you don't do it, well, Jesus, actually, I think goes as far as to say what you ought to be looking. At. What does this reveal about your relationship with me? So, you know, it's parabolic language, so you got to be careful with how far we go with all of that, but.

00;07;55;10 - 00;08;05;02
Chris
Yeah. So it's it's one of the more common themes, the in Jesus parable of this idea of stewardship. And he comes at it from a number of different ways.

00;08;05;05 - 00;08;26;15
Brenton
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a consistent idea through the, through the entire scripture. And I think, you know, we bring it to context today. And I think it does get a little, a little more complicated, maybe with, with how much stuff we acquire, in our day, you know, especially this this idea is super just countercultural to us. Right?

00;08;26;15 - 00;08;42;04
Brenton
So we we feel like since we worked for what we have, it's ours. And so how can we begin to, to kind of break this thought pattern and, and recognize that everything we have was given to us by God?

00;08;42;06 - 00;09;16;15
Chris
Yeah. I think there's a number of, answers to that. I think one, one way we do it is by taking Jesus's words seriously. I think this is a big challenge for us overall in this entire series. Whether it's specifically about our resources, financial resources or just our life, our talents, our time and all that kind of stuff, it's like, are we really going to take Jesus seriously?

00;09;16;18 - 00;09;46;12
Chris
And are we going to make the decision to live as if, his words are true and his words are good? So I read an author not too long ago who, he used to be a pastor, and he said, you know, there was a time in my life, a long time in my life, where I used to affirm that Jesus's words, about finances in particular were, were right, but they weren't good.

00;09;46;14 - 00;10;05;03
Chris
Okay. And, and so it was like okay. Yes it's right. But but, but yeah. Is that really going to be what's good for me. And so I think it's, it's it is. Let's take Jesus seriously and and and that his words are not only though true, but they also are good that it is more blessed to give than to receive.

00;10;05;05 - 00;10;30;18
Chris
And, and I think that that begins by taking, his, his teaching and what he has to say about these issues. And, you know, when he, he tells the parable that the rich fool there and Luke 12, earlier, and around verse 15, and there's this guy who, you know, he his barns get full and he says, you know what?

00;10;30;18 - 00;10;50;16
Chris
I'll do? You know, I'm going to build bigger barns. Yeah. You know, he tears down his old barns who were plenty adequate. And he just he just built bigger barns. So he accumulated more and more. And that that's not a picture of him. Of a of America like storage units and and all of this kind of thing. I don't, I don't know what it is.

00;10;50;20 - 00;11;16;14
Chris
And he calls it's the parable of the rich fool. And so, do we take that seriously? And do we really allow that to penetrate our hearts and not to run from it, but to, to, to to really do something with it? And as we talked about, I think we're going to talk about confession here in a little bit.

00;11;16;14 - 00;11;36;01
Chris
But like okay. Yeah, I, I, I've got a, I've got something here that I need to the lord to, to work in my heart and to change my heart about so I think, I think that I mean, we'll get to this later on in the series, but one of the best ways is just to, and we'll talk.

00;11;36;03 - 00;11;38;01
Chris
This will be a practice to give.

00;11;38;03 - 00;11;38;19
Brenton
Yeah.

00;11;38;21 - 00;11;47;08
Chris
Just one of the ways that we primary ways. I really believe that we,

00;11;47;10 - 00;11;58;10
Chris
Deal with greed, or we push back against greed, or however you want to put it is by actually intentionally giving some of our resources away.

00;11;58;12 - 00;11;59;04
Brenton
Yeah.

00;11;59;06 - 00;12;24;01
Chris
And it's interesting, you know, Matthew six, Jesus says, wherever your treasure is, there your heart be also. And that's it's easy to, to to miss. Mishear. Jesus there thinking, okay, that your heart, your treasure follows your heart. That's not what he says. He says your your, your heart follows your treasure. And so lay up for yourselves.

00;12;24;01 - 00;12;46;08
Chris
Treasure in heaven. So, so give, give away, give to the kingdom of God. And then your heart will follow that. A lot of times we think, well, my heart needs to get right. And then I will begin to to to give. And Jesus says, one of the ways you get your heart right is by giving him, so we'll have more we I should say, well, you, me, you.

00;12;46;09 - 00;13;16;21
Chris
I'll have more to say, another down the road. But I think that, you know, taking Jesus seriously. And then, one of the reasons I've, I've put these practices in and I think hopefully it's obvious to see a very intentional way that I'm approaching each of these sermons. But the practice is, is because we need steps and habits and things that we give ourselves to, to help to form and shape our heart.

00;13;16;24 - 00;13;33;17
Chris
Because you ain't gonna wake up tomorrow and all of a sudden your heart's you're going to be a generous person. That has to be something that has to be worked in into you and continually worked in, in, in, through you, throughout the course of your life.

00;13;33;20 - 00;13;45;22
Brenton
So can you, could you give with without your heart in it? I mean, is, is that, is that a possibility?

00;13;45;24 - 00;14;11;12
Chris
Yes, absolutely. Now, I don't think here's where it's never sufficient just to, you know, like. Okay. Yes. That's it. Just just give and and doesn't matter where your heart is. And because God loves a cheerful giver did that. So that's secondary. So so there's so there's both. So I'm not simply saying you just need to give whether you want to or not.

00;14;11;16 - 00;14;20;01
Chris
Right. But if you if you don't want to the answer is not. Well, I'm not I'm just not going to until I actually feel like it.

00;14;20;04 - 00;14;20;26
Brenton
Sure.

00;14;20;28 - 00;14;46;24
Chris
And the other answer is and just go ahead and be, you know, satisfied I'm giving, but my heart isn't into it. And I actually think like it for our church, we need we need people on both sides to come, to come together, so to speak, or for this to come together for for everybody. We we have people who who struggle to give or maybe they, they're not giving at all and their heart's not into it.

00;14;46;24 - 00;15;11;04
Chris
And so they may need to start giving so that their heart can be brought along in that. And then we have other people who are undoubtedly giving, but their heart isn't really into it either. But they're just giving because out of duty. And what what the Lord wants is he wants us to to give joyfully and and so we've got to come at it from both ways.

00;15;11;04 - 00;15;20;16
Chris
Is, is, I think, one of the ways we get our heart to that place is by, by giving. But that's not sufficient. There are other things. Or to talk about those good as well.

00;15;20;23 - 00;15;32;13
Brenton
Okay. You quoted a Jewish scholar who said that, Sharma's the quintessential expression of the most foundational belief and commitment of Judaism.

00;15;32;15 - 00;15;32;26
Chris


00;15;33;28 - 00;15;46;10
Brenton
As Christians on this side of the cross, does does the Sharma take on any kind of different life for us than it would have at that point in history? You know.

00;15;46;12 - 00;15;50;15
Chris
By the way, don't don't you just sound smarter when you say the word quintessential?

00;15;50;15 - 00;15;54;16
Brenton
I don't really smart saying that sounds.

00;15;54;19 - 00;16;43;22
Chris
I don't really think so. Rightly understood. One of the the the real problems for the people of Israel and they, they continue to get themselves into trouble is that they, they didn't understand, the commandments of God, the law, in light of, grace. And we know we know this. I think, from what we see in the Old Testament, and when we see of, many of the Jews in the time of Jesus, it's like it just had become a, a duty and an almost, you know, a salvation by works, if not completely salvation by works.

00;16;43;24 - 00;17;12;24
Chris
And they forgot it. To understand like that Shema has given it's given in Deuteronomy six. Like this is the second generation, that had come out of, Exodus. And of course, part of Deuteronomy is he's re teaching the law to them and he's reminding them because they hadn't, had forgotten or not been taught. And, you know, there's the warning to, to this, that generation about what happened to their, their parents.

00;17;12;27 - 00;17;48;17
Chris
And and yet if we go back to Exodus, we, we know that before the Ten Commandments, the people are freed from slavery in Egypt. And God even introduces the Ten Commandments by reminding them, of his his grace. And it is now I'm giving these ten commandments to you. Here's how you live. Live in light of what I've done for you, and actually how you will continue to experience, grace in the days ahead.

00;17;48;17 - 00;18;14;11
Chris
So I don't I don't actually think that there's, obviously there's a different way for us to look at it in the terms of the, of the cross and all that. But the the Passover lamb was meant to, you know, like to point to, to the cross. And so we have a, a clear picture and, and, and they were looking forward much more dimly than we look back and all of that.

00;18;14;14 - 00;18;47;22
Chris
But I think if it's rightly understood, I think, you know, I walk through those things, through those three, three primary expressions. There's one God, that God is our personal god because he initiated, his love, the relationship and his love for us, for the, you know, the Old Testament is, you know, through him choosing Abraham and then, you know, and all the way through, they're down through the patriarchs, to the exodus and into the promised land.

00;18;47;24 - 00;19;06;24
Chris
But, and then in response, we are called to, to love him back with all that we are. And I just would add one more thing. I think that we get, so turn around the these ten commandments again are its duty is duty is to do is do we got to we got to got to and not not recognize.

00;19;06;29 - 00;19;28;14
Chris
You know that the Ten Commandments are actually God's grace to us because they are the way to, to life. You know, and and I didn't talk about this one certainly could have, but but essentially what Jesus is doing in his what I call the Jesus Creed, loving God and loving others. That's the ten commandments, the first four love God.

00;19;28;18 - 00;19;47;13
Chris
The last six are love your neighbor. And the thing is, is, is what's the best way to, you know, what's going to be the best for me in my marriage is it's to love my is to love my wife. And how do I love my wife? Well, it's kind of laid out there even in in the ten Commandments.

00;19;47;16 - 00;20;16;04
Chris
And so you could go on to my neighbor and, you know, to all the people that you interact with and, and so when we, they're not when they understand these commandments are not heavy. And Moses even reminds the people because we could go like Deuteronomy, you go through all of this, they're not heavy. If we if we understand like, no, this is what will lead to to to fulfill blessed life.

00;20;16;06 - 00;20;23;12
Chris
You know, the New Testament, ten commandments, the Beatitudes, they all start with blessed. So, yeah. Yeah.

00;20;23;14 - 00;20;31;26
Brenton
Yeah. Good. You you talked about first Corinthians 13, the famous wedding passage, right?

00;20;31;28 - 00;20;33;11
Chris
Right.

00;20;33;13 - 00;20;56;21
Brenton
All in verse three by saying, I gain nothing. And this is, what you kept driving home as well, you know, if if we don't love, if we don't have love, all of our achievements mean nothing but, you know, as as we think through, this in our everyday lives that that doesn't necessarily feel like the case, right?

00;20;56;21 - 00;21;20;14
Brenton
Because our actions often bring short term, tangible results. They bring, you know, our success brings, status or it brings something in our lives that we find valuable. I think it's so easy to get tied up in this sometimes, you know, where we value the short term finite rewards over the eternal rewards, you know, that come from a life rooted in love.

00;21;20;14 - 00;21;33;28
Brenton
And so how how do we kind of shift our perspective from personal finite gain to, to a more eternal view? Is that is that possible to do?

00;21;34;00 - 00;22;00;03
Chris
I think it's it's possible in, in, in measure to do. I know you know, there's a passage in Philippians three or Paul says, not that I'm already being made perfect. So, I was actually thinking about this this morning. If Paul, you know, couldn't say like, he he was perfect. I don't think any of us are probably going to, to make it.

00;22;00;03 - 00;22;35;02
Chris
And I don't think that God envisions that happening. And, and we certainly don't have any examples in Scripture of that happening. And so, but I think that we need to also realize that, you know, let me step back here, really, what we're talking about, this series, transformation is the doctrine of sanctification. Right? And we believe in progressive sanctification, which, that is, we are progressively this is Second Corinthians 318 being transformed into the image of Jesus.

00;22;35;02 - 00;22;54;14
Chris
But that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of ups and downs. I think that we should look at our Christian life the way that we should look at the, parenting, which I think should be how we kind of, would, would consider the stock market. The stock market's going to go up and up and down.

00;22;54;16 - 00;23;19;16
Chris
That's just the way it is. As long as it is going up over time, we're probably going to be okay. Right. And and there's some parenting advice for you too. But, but even in and I think we, we need to keep that perspective in, in mind both at the good times and the bad times. Although we're doing well when we're not doing well, like when we're doing well.

00;23;19;16 - 00;23;43;18
Chris
Be careful because like, like, you know, you, you know, take heed lest you fall. And then when, when we're struggling or whatever, looking back and saying, okay, yeah, I've, I've struggled with I'm, I'm, I fall in, I've stumbled. But I can also see over the long haul, God is doing a good work in my life.

00;23;43;18 - 00;23;50;03
Chris
So, your question, I know I have an interview question yet.

00;23;50;05 - 00;23;51;04
Brenton
It's a good prelude.

00;23;51;07 - 00;24;27;29
Chris
It's a it's a tough one to answer because especially in the world that we live in today, where we are an instant gratification society more than ever before. I've joked about on here how, you know, I'll get impatient, at the microwave, which past generations, which is absolutely, you know, laugh at. But it's even worse now with, with, technology and, our phones is like, we are and things like, you know, Amazon, the one click and, DoorDash and like, and, and we can, you know, we have an Amazon fulfillment center here in Burlington now.

00;24;27;29 - 00;24;35;08
Chris
And you literally. So I mean, it's yeah, it's really nice, but is is that but.

00;24;35;10 - 00;24;38;11
Brenton
I haven't gotten our drones yet.

00;24;38;14 - 00;25;09;11
Chris
This is a this is another actually practice thing, I think, where we come in to, to, actually intentionally, placing things in our lives where we are, we are not allowing ourselves to experience instant gratification. I mean, take a big gulp. I yeah, I know I can't as a as a table. I can see maybe metaphorically doing that, but but it's it is, it's it's like I'm not going to I give you an example.

00;25;09;14 - 00;25;43;11
Chris
Okay. Personal example I used to have not too long ago. Like in recent weeks, the Amazon tab on my, on my browser where I, it was right there I spent time and like, yeah, pinned to things. And I, I actually made a conscious effort decision. I took it off. So it's not it's not now I can obviously I can get to it so really quick, but and like, what it actually does make a difference because it's not I don't see the A and it's not, it's not there.

00;25;43;11 - 00;26;11;02
Chris
And and so I really do think that that's, something like thinking of how do I, how do I make myself wait for things? And, and as a reminder that, I, I need to have more of an eternal view and and a discipline and train. So train what we're talking about here. And by the way, these practices, I haven't used this language yet is train.

00;26;11;02 - 00;26;44;13
Chris
We have to train ourselves. Yeah. Okay. And Paul literally says to Timothy, young man, this is that is important. To, to and train yourself to be godly. And so there is an element here where we have to actually train ourselves. And instead of letting the world, the world's, train us in a certain way, we have to to take the means that God has given us to train through the power of the Holy Spirit ourselves in other ways.

00;26;44;15 - 00;27;06;25
Chris
I think it's this. This might be another, way to, to, to do this, but it's always good to go to a couple of funerals a year. And I, I don't know if we've talked about this before, I would, I've, I've said on a couple of occasions I'd rather do a funeral than a wedding, because at the wedding nobody pays attention.

00;27;06;27 - 00;27;46;21
Chris
Anything I say than you know, like just get those words out so we can go on with the, with the rest of the day. But, a funeral. People are. People are locked in a lot of times because there's a dead body laying right there, and it's dead serious. And having that reminder, is is important, I think, to to remember that, like, one day, all this stuff that we get so focused on and we spend so much of our life, you know, trying to, to, either achieve or accumulate or whatever.

00;27;46;27 - 00;28;07;08
Chris
It ain't going, it's not going with us. And, and it's sobering and we need those kind of things. And again, I know I pick on a culture a lot, but our culture does everything it can to keep us to thinking about death or our own death. Yeah. And that's not health. That's not, that's just not healthy.

00;28;07;11 - 00;28;35;07
Brenton
Yeah. Brings me back I don't know, it was a month or two ago when Clay preached through Ecclesiastes. And you know, that's we talked about that on the podcast and it you know, that's kind of the main thrust of that book is that nothing, nothing here lasts. And so, yeah, it it does give you a better perspective on stuff, but it's still, you know, I don't even as you're talking, I'm like, I don't know I don't know if I want any of that.

00;28;35;09 - 00;28;36;09
Chris
Yeah, well.

00;28;36;12 - 00;28;37;23
Brenton
But it's just so ingrained in us.

00;28;37;24 - 00;29;06;09
Chris
It is, it's but it's this is, it's it's about resistance. And, we have to resist because if we just go along with the flow, then we're we're going to be people who. I mean, and I think it's it is some of these parables of Jesus and, like letting that really soak in and like, okay, okay, I'm in instead of just feeling bad because that's what we'll do a lot.

00;29;06;11 - 00;29;26;23
Chris
We'll just feel bad when we hear it or will read it. I just feel bad. He's making me feel bad about my about where I'm at. Well, okay. Instead of just feeling bad, let's let's let it say, okay, I, I need to do something with this. In the power of the spirit.

00;29;26;25 - 00;29;32;15
Brenton
Yeah. All right, well, we'll wrap up here on confession. So.

00;29;32;18 - 00;29;34;21
Chris
Everybody feels like they need to confess, right? Yeah.

00;29;34;23 - 00;29;47;28
Brenton
Right. Yeah. So confession was a key takeaway from this week. Why is confession so important to the Christian life?

00;29;48;00 - 00;30;28;24
Chris
Well, I mean, probably many reasons, but the first one is because we're sinners, right? And, our sin separates us from God. Now, as believers, we can't be separated from God. So let me let me clarify. Sin is is what separates us from God in the first place. Jesus came back, came here. Peter says, first Peter 316 that, Christ suffered, once, for the ungodly, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God.

00;30;28;26 - 00;30;53;17
Chris
And and so, Jesus came to, to break down that wall of separation. And through faith in him, we are restored to God. We have peace with him. Paul says in Romans five one, through Jesus, through our Lord Jesus Christ. But what sin does, once we are believers, is it just hinders our, our relationship.

00;30;53;20 - 00;31;19;06
Chris
The psalmist says, if I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. In other words, if we just are holding on to our sin knowingly and we're refusing to confess it, then that's just going to get hinder our relationship. So here's maybe a, a good analogy here. Today is Zane's, 12.

00;31;19;07 - 00;31;51;03
Chris
Got your day. 12 years today. Yeah. So hard to believe he's been that long. He the moment that that, government official signed the document in China, March 11th, 2013. He became my son. And there's nothing that literally nothing that can can change that legally. He is my son. Okay. And and so once we profess faith in Jesus, we are God's son or daughter.

00;31;51;05 - 00;32;18;22
Chris
And there's just nothing in the world. Paul's really clear about that in, Romans eight. And yet, you know, there are times, where Zane does things, that, hurt me, does things where I've got to, address those with him or he's, you know, having an attitude or whatever. And this is not. I mean, this is true for every kid.

00;32;18;22 - 00;32;40;18
Chris
It's true for all of us, right? We we've all been there. And so where our relationship will, you know, I'm looking across here at their brother, tank, who's, you know, and he's gone through this with his son. And his his son is his son. Will be a son. And, you know, we, you know, ultimately like that, it hurts.

00;32;40;18 - 00;33;06;16
Chris
And and the relationship is, gets broken. Not completely or irrevocably, but it does, you know, and so confession is the way that our relationship with the Lord is, is mended and, and restored. And, the purpose there really is. So, again, we have the opportunity to experience his a grace afresh and and a new.

00;33;06;23 - 00;33;33;07
Brenton
Yeah. So, yeah. So, you know, how can we as a church build up a culture where confession is welcomed? You know, I sat, in service this Sunday when we had that time. And I'm sitting next to my son and we spent some time talking about, you know, well, do you have anything to confess? And there were things that he wanted to talk about, and it was just such a cool moment.

00;33;33;07 - 00;33;50;08
Brenton
But like, there was space given specifically for that. So that's probably one example. But, you know, how can we how can we build up a culture where, confession is welcomed and, and also, you know, as the church but also as individuals, how can we be people that are open to those things?

00;33;50;08 - 00;34;22;11
Chris
Yeah. Well, yeah, that's a big question and a really important one. In part, maybe I just preview the message, not this Sunday, but next Sunday I'm going to do an entire message about shame. And so, it's really hard for us to confess in, in, we all wrestle with shame. Okay? And so we, we come in with shame and struggling with shame.

00;34;22;14 - 00;34;53;07
Chris
And so there's that. And then we all have experiences where we've been in, even in, in settings, many of us church settings where that shame has been heaped upon us, and we've experienced that, and so, you know, we have shame. We've been in experiences, you know, where we've it's been heaped on us by people who shouldn't have done it.

00;34;53;10 - 00;35;25;28
Chris
And so by the time you put those two things together, you got it. It's really, really difficult. And and, and so you're, you're asking, you're asking for, for a lot. So my answer then is, is, is is one we're going to talk a lot about shame. And what is the the answer to shame our own. And then I think in that how do we have a culture of grace where we, instead of a culture of judgmental ism?

00;35;26;00 - 00;35;50;29
Chris
And I actually believe, by the way, in a very careful light, we're going to go on forever, and I'm going to, talk about stuff that we'll talk about later. There's just or judgmental ism. We, we, we need to eradicate judgmental ism. But you know what? It actually begins. It begins with actually, the part where Jesus says, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

00;35;51;02 - 00;36;33;17
Chris
Our problem is a lot of times is, is that because of our guilt and shame, we end up judging ourselves harshly. And when you judge yourself harshly, it's it's just only natural you're going to judge everybody else harshly. Because one of the primary ways that we deal with our shame is by judging other people so that we can put the focus on their supposed guilt and shame and so that's a lot I maybe, but I, I think that this is why we're committed to preaching the gospel week in and week out.

00;36;33;17 - 00;37;06;25
Chris
And, I, I go back to Brennan's story, which, you know, kudos to you for, for bringing a great video together. But, I'm, I'm so thankful that we have a church where, Brennan can be, on staff and all that she has, has gone through and experienced, which, you know, is indescribably difficult.

00;37;06;25 - 00;37;37;18
Chris
I don't think I can understand it. Nope. And yet, God's. She's found grace, in our church or through the ministries of our church and through some really great ladies in particular. And that has helped or is helping to transform, her her guilt and her her shame. Not all of it is like it is her responsibility. A lot of it is not.

00;37;37;20 - 00;38;14;25
Chris
But the problem with shame is, is that, you don't have to do anything on your own to experience it. It can very well be because of what other people have done to you. And, and so I guess I don't know if I'm making any sense here, but it's it's, the more and more we have a culture of grace here, the the the the easier it will be for people to confess, because they will will see and know that if they do confess that they are going to experience grace instead of judgment.

00;38;14;27 - 00;38;49;01
Chris
That's the most that's the most important part is like how, everything within someone, when they are feeling compelled to maybe confess is going to be screaming no, because of guilt and shame. And so how do we we have a culture where what speaks more loudly is the gospel of grace that God forgives. Anyone who comes to him in faith, regardless of what has been done by them or to them or both.

00;38;49;01 - 00;38;56;14
Brenton
And yeah, that's a lot, more to come on that in a couple of weeks, I guess.

00;38;56;16 - 00;38;57;04
Chris
Yeah.

00;38;57;07 - 00;39;10;29
Brenton
Well, thanks for your thanks for your thoughts on all this. Yeah. Looking forward to continuing in this series and see how we can grow. So, yeah, thanks for thanks for the conversation. And we will talk to you guys next week.