00;00;00;12 - 00;00;05;07
Brenton
Welcome back to further. I am Brenton Grim. Chris Carr, how are you doing?

00;00;05;10 - 00;00;06;09
Chris
Well, it's a Tuesday.

00;00;06;16 - 00;00;10;23
Brenton
It is a Tuesday. Yeah. Lots of meetings with, you know.

00;00;10;26 - 00;00;17;09
Chris
For sure. And, we've got a lot going on. And you've been. You've been a busy guy. Yep. In particular. So.

00;00;17;09 - 00;00;35;04
Brenton
Yeah. It's all good, though. We're, looking forward to, a few different things coming up. We got advanced commitment again. It's going to be, a good event that everyone should make it out to. And then, you know, we're. You said this morning we're kind of on the downhill, part of this. We're we're over halfway.

00;00;35;05 - 00;00;35;27
Brenton
Yeah.

00;00;35;29 - 00;00;55;20
Chris
Wow. Yeah. Downhill and I don't know if you and I feel necessarily good. It's downhill. It still seems like it's quite a push or. I feel that, but it's good. It's it's it's exciting. We are in the homestretch for sure. It's, It's hard to believe we're here already. Well, we'd be more than halfway here. After this Sunday.

00;00;55;20 - 00;01;25;22
Brenton
It's gone fast, but. Yeah. Okay, so let's just jump into your sermon from this week. So you started out with your your giving principle again. This week it was sowing. This comes from second Corinthians nine. Verse six says, whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. And you, you included the caveat in this that, you know, it isn't an argument for the prosperity gospel at all.

00;01;25;22 - 00;01;39;26
Brenton
So I'm, I want to talk about, first of all, can you go a little more in depth into what Paul means when he says, whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully? If it's not wealth, what what are we reaping?

00;01;39;28 - 00;02;12;22
Chris
Sure. I don't think, it doesn't necessarily include, wealth. But the the caveat with that being that it is wealth for the purpose of actually being able to be more generous. So I do actually believe that that part of the, the reaping there is reaping, financial, you know, our financial harvest. But that's for the purpose.

00;02;12;22 - 00;02;40;29
Chris
Paul goes on to say, so that you can be generous in every way. And so, I think that, you know, the prosperity gospel is that God is going to make you wealthy and for as an end in and of itself and with an emphasis on, wealthy rather than just simply meeting your needs and then giving you more so that you can continue to invest it back into into God's kingdom.

00;02;41;02 - 00;03;08;09
Chris
So the motivation is really, a lot of the issue there and the, the misunderstanding of what the, the reaping is. But I think it's even just worth maybe going back and reading some of those other verses. But, in verse ten I said, there's a nine, ten. He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness.

00;03;08;09 - 00;03;30;18
Chris
So it is actually talking there about, multiplying your seed for sow and give you more seed. But to sow more, so more seed so you can buy, you know, the, the big house or the, the shiny car, that or whatever material blessing means, in that and and increase the increase, there's the harvest of your righteousness.

00;03;30;18 - 00;03;53;17
Chris
And so what that means is, is that you've been, using your resources in a righteous and a God honoring way increases your the harvest there in the harvest is righteousness, I think, in other people's lives and anything goes, you will be enriched in every way to be generous in every way. So you'll be why? Why or is God doing this?

00;03;53;19 - 00;04;18;17
Chris
And then he goes on to say which through us will produce Thanksgiving to God, for the ministry of the service is not only supplying the needs of the saints. So you know, God, you're reaping financial benefits. So that you can then meet more needs. And then he goes on to say this, it is, also overflowing in many Thanksgiving, to God.

00;04;18;20 - 00;04;38;17
Chris
And so at the end of the day, what a reaping is God's getting the glory, which is the reason that we were created in the first place. And so we actually are then getting to fulfill more and more our purpose. So, so what do you reap? Yes. There's financial, I do believe blessings that God promises to those who are generous.

00;04;38;19 - 00;05;03;03
Chris
But those blessings are for the intended purpose that we can be more generous. And as a result, people, come to know the Lord, which is the harvest of righteousness. And then, as a result of people coming into the Lord, God gets thanksgiving and he gets the glory out of it. And so, yeah, that's, that's that's the the purpose of all of that.

00;05;03;03 - 00;05;36;13
Chris
And so I think where it goes wrong is when people think I'm going to give so that I'm going to get in it for my own intended purposes. And I think if we have the motivation and that's there, I think I'm God may, may still give us, you know, we may reap financial benefits, but generally speaking, that's not going to be for our good is going to be for our detriment because we're loving money and and people who are greedy that it always goes wrong.

00;05;36;16 - 00;05;52;00
Chris
And the Bible tells us that in life just shows us that, and, but I don't think it's necessarily even a promise that if you are giving out the wrong motivation that God is going to bless that either. So, Yeah. Yeah.

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Brenton
Good. So, you know, just thinking contextually here in Second Corinthians who's the recipient that he's talking about? Is he primarily talking about giving to the local church, or is this specifically helping him in his mission? Is there any kind of indication there?

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Chris
Well, I don't, think you can separate those two things. I think people, sometimes do, and I think it's a false, dichotomy to think that Paul's mission is separate from the church. So I think, what we see all throughout Scripture is, is that you give through the local church to missions, to the mission of the church, whether that be literally a missionary, as, as Paul was or we call him field staff, or or whatever other ministry the church is doing.

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Chris
And so Paul's speaking to a local church, in First Corinthians, he actually says, hey, I'm coming, and I want you to set aside something at the beginning of every week, like when you gather on Sunday so that there doesn't need to be a collection when I come. And what he's doing here in Second Corinthians eight nine is because he hadn't done what he instructed them to do in first Corinthians 16.

00;07;09;04 - 00;07;46;11
Chris
So, and so, you know, he obviously he's an apostle. There's a little bit of a different context here today we don't have I don't believe we have big apostles. But the point is, and we see this all throughout, acts and then in, in the New Testament epistles is that people give to the church and yes, sometimes like this offering that he's actually addressing in Second Corinthians eight nine and back to first Corinthians is for the poverty stricken church in Jerusalem, the mother ship, so to speak.

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Chris
They're they're struggling and so but yet but is but it's still it's to it's through a local church and it's for a local church. Yeah. Yeah.

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Brenton
And then you would say that's the consistent teaching of the New Testament, right? That like, our primary gifts should be going toward toward a local church.

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Chris
I think that's the only giving that we see in the New Testament. Yeah. And we're going to so maybe preview this weeks as is storehouse, which will be an unfamiliar term to a lot of people, probably, especially younger generations. But that word comes from Malachi chapter three, whereby God tells view Israel, bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house and the storehouse is the temple, which is not the same as the the church today.

00;08;38;07 - 00;09;21;02
Chris
But there are parallels there. I don't believe that there's new Testament commands that Christians are commanded to tie, like the the people of Israel were. But there's a principle there. And and so they would bring their offerings to the temple. And then we see in the New Testament, specifically in acts, and you go to, acts four and five as people were in the, the church in Jerusalem, they're selling fields, and then they're coming and laying the money at the apostles feet so that like, they're bringing it to the church and saying the leaders would be elders, they're responsible to disseminate this to to see that, the mission of the

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Chris
church is fulfilled. And that's the only I mean, we just don't there are no parish church organizations, and there are no missionaries that are operating under, you know, these organizations and, and I'm we're not opposed to those I'm not saying that I'm opposed to them, but, the that's not the church and, and, and and Jesus says, I will build my church this.

00;09;47;23 - 00;10;13;05
Chris
Hey, I'm going to build my nonprofit or I'm going to build my mission agency, I'm going to build my church. And again, we you know, we have at Harmony, a nonprofit that we we started this whole foundation. And it's a it's, you know, a wing or an arm of our, of our ministry. So, but God's not building that.

00;10;13;07 - 00;10;18;12
Chris
He's using it. But the church that that's you flow out of that the church. So.

00;10;18;18 - 00;10;28;28
Brenton
Okay, let's get a little practical here. We had a question come in, about disagreements between spouses. So I'm going to give you this one. You'll have one of them.

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Chris
That's the thing.

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Brenton
Yeah.

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Chris
Right. Yeah.

00;10;31;23 - 00;10;42;18
Brenton
I've never experienced that. How can a married couple come to an agreement about how much time or money to give to the local church?

00;10;42;21 - 00;10;46;01
Chris
Yeah, it sounds like a question for the counseling. Room.

00;10;46;03 - 00;10;47;19
Brenton
But I could call them up here.

00;10;47;20 - 00;11;21;13
Chris
Maybe we need to get one of our, counselors, in. Yeah. I don't know that I can give, a whole lot of specifics here. I think that it's tough. And I can understand where this this comes from because, you know, money is, one of the the the leading causes. Or at least that's where you will see a lot of marital conflict, arise from, or it will become evident in, in those issues.

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Chris
And a lot of times you have people who have different bents, you know, who, you know, spender area, a saver or some of the, you know, and so they have just maybe different wiring in those kind of things. And, and just on top of that, the money gets stressful because it's a limited resource and there's just so many different things that that come into play there.

00;11;47;11 - 00;12;17;25
Chris
And maybe the most, essentially is, yeah, there can be a different, just really idea of how money should be used to serve. The Lord, you know, back to that. Oh, stewardship, principle. And it's, it's, it's, I would say relatively frequent that, married couples that, like, they don't have the same mentality when it comes to, to stewardship.

00;12;17;25 - 00;12;49;27
Chris
So that's that's really, really hard. And so there's as much as possible like, a discussion about this. And in an ideal world, both members of the, marriage are going to, submit themselves under the authority of Christ. And, and recognize, like, these resources are not ours. We have been called to steward them. And so let's let's pray and let's talk and discuss, as to how the Lord would have us to do that.

00;12;50;01 - 00;13;15;12
Chris
I think that the New Testament, the Bible's whole, would put the onus on the husband to, to lead in that. And, what I mean by lead, I don't mean to say like, this is what should happen, but to lead in, you know, hearing what his wife thinks and, what Lord lays on her heart and where the Lord has her.

00;13;15;16 - 00;13;49;28
Chris
And, and then leading in that discussion and then the wife being willing to be to be led if he he is leading. And unfortunately, probably more often than not, it will be the the wife being the one who is pushing for more generosity than, than the husband. And so, yeah. And so the husband being humble in those situations and being like like, yeah, okay, maybe I maybe I do need to listen to what my, my wife has to say here.

00;13;50;00 - 00;14;13;05
Chris
So, I don't know any of that is terribly helpful. But it really comes back to the at the end of the day, are we both going to pursue the Lord in this? And, if if you have a spouse that's not on the same wavelength with you, it's probably it needs a lot of prayer and a lot of discussion and patience.

00;14;13;05 - 00;14;13;28
Chris


00;14;14;00 - 00;14;27;05
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, even even if you guys are on the same page, it's still hard to to come to a conclusion on what you're supposed to be doing. And so, yeah, I'm sure a lot of that is case by case.

00;14;27;05 - 00;15;02;05
Chris
Yeah. This this may be opening up a can of worms. I'm friend I'm really good at. But I, I think that if, if, if a husband is willing to lead and and have the discussions with his wife and, listen to what she has to say and listen to her heart and all of that. Then, generally speaking, this is I'm not going to say it like it's going to go great, but it's going to head in the right direction.

00;15;02;07 - 00;15;30;03
Chris
On the other hand, if husband's just not open to it or at all, what I would say to wives is that at the end of the day, you know, wives that are responsible to, for how they respond to their husbands leadership, not ultimately for the the end result of what, a what a family, married couple would would do.

00;15;30;05 - 00;15;31;01
Chris
Yeah.

00;15;31;04 - 00;15;33;05
Brenton
Don't you take yourself on a whole nother tangent.

00;15;33;08 - 00;15;44;05
Chris
Well, it is, but I think that if I have my guests, this question is coming from a wife. I don't know who the question comes from. See, so I you saw it. Maybe. Maybe don't don't give me any.

00;15;44;05 - 00;15;45;05
Brenton
And they're asking for a friend.

00;15;45;05 - 00;16;22;09
Chris
No, don't. Well, don't give me any indication before I answer the question. Okay. Well if I, if I had my guess from lots of pastoral experience, this question is coming from a woman who's husband, is not on board with actually giving. Now, I, I could be wrong. I know it's not universal, but that's my experience. And so I think that, wives who find themselves in those situations need, need to know that, if they are found, you know, they're responsible for how they respond to their husbands leadership.

00;16;22;09 - 00;16;28;23
Chris
And the husband, at the end of the day, is responsible for, how that actually plays out.

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Brenton
Yeah. All right. Good.

00;16;30;27 - 00;16;34;20
Chris
So there'll be five more questions from the.

00;16;34;20 - 00;16;44;14
Brenton
Haslett for further podcast.com. Okay. You encouraged us to pay attention to our emotions as a way of understanding our hearts.

00;16;44;17 - 00;16;50;18
Chris
Some people need to pay attention to their emotions after that last little bit. Right now, let's go.

00;16;50;18 - 00;17;10;01
Brenton
Ahead and let's bring us back. So I think, you know, we can fall into two different ditches with our emotions. Either they either they rule us or we pretend they don't exist. And you talked about that a little bit, but what advice do you have for these two different extremes?

00;17;10;03 - 00;17;50;08
Chris
Well, that's a big, big question. I think if they if they rule us, recognizing that the you know, the our emotions are not a problem to be fixed. So I said that on Sunday. So the answer is not stop being emotional, which is maybe what, you would hear in the church. Or from other Christians or even culture to some degree, just depends upon, you know, what part of our culture, maybe, or generation you're talking to.

00;17;50;09 - 00;18;22;21
Chris
So the, the so it's not like I, I, I need to, you know, stop being emotional. It's more we can use the word sanctified and the emotions need to be sanctified. And so but I think the question is, is about them ruling us. Yeah. They, they shouldn't do us to to the point where just whatever they are, we're going to let it like we're let wherever it takes us, we're right and we're right with them.

00;18;22;24 - 00;18;51;07
Chris
I think a great way when I think about emotions, I think we've had a choice. And there's two different ways to, to come out this either walking in the spirit, walking in the flesh. And so you can talk about it that way. I like walking in the light or walking in the darkness and, or and when I say light, that means towards the Lord and towards other people are darkness.

00;18;51;07 - 00;19;25;09
Chris
So away from the Lord in a way, from, from from people. And so our emotions can lead us, you know, we can go in either direction with those things. So, for example, we all feel guilty, right? That is an emotion. It's also a legal standing. Like you won't talk about that right now. So in not only legal, like in a legal sense with the, the police or a human judge, but actually spiritually speaking too.

00;19;25;11 - 00;19;51;28
Chris
But it also is a, there's a feeling associated with that and with a guilty feeling, we can either just go to condemn, you know, for feeling condemned and we're going to let ourselves like I'm condemn them. You know, which can easily turn into shame really quickly. Those two things are closely related. Shame, shame, or say guilt is built on shame, so to speak.

00;19;52;00 - 00;20;23;15
Chris
Or we can take our guilt and we can run to the cross and, and, you know, like Romans eight one, there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So we can just like I live under this condemnation, this weight and this burden, which is a it's a feeling. Or we can take that and, and and and release that to the Lord or a afraid which is anxiety in those things, you know, like you can like, I'm just going to let my anxiety control me.

00;20;23;17 - 00;20;46;00
Chris
Or as Paul says, don't be anxious for anything. This is Philippians four. What do you do? You pray. You take it to the Lord. So it doesn't mean the anxiety goes away when I'm not anxious anymore. So of that, like, necessarily for sure. But what what do you what do you are you letting the emotion rule you?

00;20;46;00 - 00;21;12;05
Chris
Are you going to to the Lord. And so learning and practicing that for those who rule us, let me get back to the, those who pretend that they don't exist. I. Maybe, what I would just start out with here is those are your motions. If you pretend they don't exist, they're going to control you.

00;21;12;07 - 00;21;49;08
Chris
They are controlling you. You're just unaware of of how they are doing. So, and they are doing damage to your relationship with God, your relationship with other people. And if you as long as you pretend that they don't exist, there's really not any remedy for him. No. So, you can. I mean, when I started out on this journey, I had somebody say to me, you know, how's that?

00;21;49;08 - 00;22;26;21
Chris
How's that working for you know, it's like, I'm just like, you know, rub some dirt on, and I'm just like, we're just going to, you know, charge ahead and and and eventually it's like, okay, well, it's not working very it's not working very well. So I, I maybe the only other thing I would say here, to those who, pretend that they don't exist, the, the, the reason, that we, we don't address them is because we're afraid of the dam.

00;22;26;27 - 00;22;56;02
Chris
And it literally had people say I can't or the dam's going to open up on me. I'm afraid of the tidal wave that's coming. It'll be too hard. I can't deal with it. And it's in and. And that's a completely understandable. Completely understandable. And yet the reality is, is that we have a choice when it comes to this issue of hard and hard like like it's.

00;22;56;05 - 00;23;23;29
Chris
Yes, it's hard to face them, but it's it's also going to be hard not to. And what hard is going to lead to potential healing and to good things and fruitful things in your life. And anyone who has, let's just say, speak to any anybody who still especially has kids in the home. If you're not going to do it for yourself, at least do it for your kids.

00;23;24;01 - 00;23;54;19
Brenton
Yeah. This is, this is not a topic that gets talked about a lot, I don't think. And so, I think I think it's helpful to actually deal with the, the elephant in the room that we like to ignore a lot. You know, as we, I know, next week we're going to talk a lot more about, you know, specifically shame, but are just in the meantime, are there any resources you would suggest for someone who's who's kind of realizing that they fall into one of these issues?

00;23;54;19 - 00;24;03;27
Chris
Yeah, this is a tough question. When you put it on the, the list for today. Well.

00;24;03;29 - 00;24;06;25
Brenton
Chicken soup for the souls or anything.

00;24;06;27 - 00;24;43;22
Chris
It's that the challenge for it is, is this is not an an area that I think that could sound theologically minded people have really, done a lot of work on. Yeah. And so the generally speaking, the people who have done some good work on it, are also going to include some things that I wouldn't necessarily want to, just on reserve at least put before, but sure does.

00;24;43;22 - 00;25;13;00
Chris
That does that make sense? Like if it, like, especially for, for someone who's not as grounded in, in the scripture and so it's, there's, there's, there's quite a bit of writing about this. But I would just give an example. There's a lady in Brené Brown, if you know that name or not, but she is one of the most watched Ted talks of all time.

00;25;13;03 - 00;25;38;28
Chris
And it's about the issue of shame. And she's become very well known. She wrote a book, and there's there's some really good stuff in there, but she's she's not a believer. And so it's, it's it's not rooted and grounded in the gospel and this idea of moving towards the Lord and it's move toward other people and being vulnerable or.

00;25;39;05 - 00;25;40;25
Chris
Okay and good.

00;25;40;28 - 00;25;42;04
Brenton
So yeah.

00;25;42;08 - 00;26;06;10
Chris
I'm not going to recommend her book to really hardly anybody. Although now people have just said her name listed, but it's a good example. I would just actually say, like, if you're not deeply grounded in the scriptures and in your faith, you should not read that book. It because it's, it's it's then it's about the ear.

00;26;06;12 - 00;26;27;02
Chris
You know, the answer is vulnerability. Well, that only gets you halfway home, right as we're going to talk about this weekend. So with all that being said, I will point out a couple of, of books. There's a great, great book called The Cry of the soul, by, a counselor, the name of Dan Hollander and, theologian.

00;26;27;02 - 00;26;50;00
Chris
I really, like by the name of Trumper long. And it's quite an interesting name for Longman. The third, but, the cry. So I think that that's, it's really helpful. So there's a book called Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy by a pastor named Mark broke out. He's actually the new president of the Gospel Coalition. It's not a book on emotion.

00;26;50;07 - 00;27;26;10
Chris
So this, speak, but it is a book about lamenting, which is a key, key component here, to this. And it really does deal with emotions. Those would be two books that I would, you know, maybe to get the ball rolling there. There is a book that, is going to be really important to the, message this weekend called The Soul of Shame by Kurt Thompson, Doctor Kurt Thompson.

00;27;26;12 - 00;27;59;08
Chris
And it's another book, though, that I, I would just put a little bit of an asterisk by, he's a believer and I like a lot of what he has to say, but, it's another one for me. But, I mean, his writing has, and his work has had a profound impact on me. But again, it's not necessarily for for us to dive into without a good grounding in the scripture, so that that's maybe where, where I would start.

00;27;59;08 - 00;28;35;29
Chris
There's really, a real, in my opinion, a real need for this issue to be addressed from, a deep, deep theological grounding and, understanding, you know, the, the, the reality of the emotions and, and how we are wired as human beings. You know, maybe one more book. There's Ed Welch, who is a, biblical counselor, and he's got a it's called a small book about why we hide.

00;28;36;02 - 00;28;41;17
Chris
And I found that it's actually a devotional, like a 50 day devotional I found to be pretty helpful, too.

00;28;41;19 - 00;29;05;19
Brenton
Yeah. Well, no, I mean, you bring up a good point. I think it probably has contributed to why the church has not really, dove into this, issue much is because there's just so much garbage out there. There's there's so much self-help stuff that has been mainstreamed. And it seems like every, every couple of months, a new psychologist is coming out with something new and.

00;29;05;19 - 00;29;12;07
Brenton
Sure. And so, you know, it is really hard to find good biblical information on this.

00;29;12;07 - 00;29;43;23
Chris
So yeah, I mean, it's the self self self-esteem and, and that without any. Yeah. Again, it is not we're just not doing emotions just to, to do emotions and to get in touch with who we really are, what's really inside. It's like why have they this has been one of the and I don't know if there's resonated with people or not, but emotions are a part of the the human biblically we see that that emotions are part of the heart.

00;29;43;26 - 00;30;10;17
Chris
And, and I believe that emotions have been given to us by God to to point us to what's going on in our heart. That doesn't mean that what's going on in our heart is good. My heart is angry. Okay, well, why is it angry? Well, it's angry because I'm not getting my way. Oh, okay. Well, you know, that's, that's an issue that needs to be worked on.

00;30;10;17 - 00;30;27;21
Chris
I need to repent of, and I need to, you know, I need to do some work there. I'm. I'm lonely. You're lonely. Why? Why are you lonely? And. Well, it's because of something that somebody did to you experience like you experienced. Or is it because of choices that you are make, or is it more than likely both of those things?

00;30;27;21 - 00;31;07;13
Chris
Okay, so that's what's going on. And now what do I do in response to that? Yeah. And a lot of the even I would say maybe pseudo Christian psychiatry would simply be it just it's a lot of blame it on other people or what. Sure. What you know has been done to you and that that's not I'm not saying it's not a contributing factor and a significant contributing factor, but it's not the end or, the end of the story.

00;31;07;15 - 00;31;18;22
Brenton
Yeah. All right. Well, thank you for that. We're going to wrap it up here. So if you do have any questions following up on this, ask it further podcast.com and we will talk to you next week.