00;00;40;20 - 00;00;56;25
Brenton
Welcome back to further. I am Brenton Grim. Chris Carr. You know, I, I feel like I've keep. I keep saying that this journey's over, but is it is not right. So. No. Would it be fair to say the first leg of this journey is over?

00;00;56;25 - 00;01;18;07
Chris
Yeah, I think so. I think it's a great way to put it. We've we've said for the beginning this is two years. So this is the first and maybe the biggest part, at least to get, get things going. But, we've made our two year commitments, but we're also going to keep coming back to the Great commandment throughout the next two years.

00;01;18;07 - 00;01;38;03
Chris
And, and talking about some more things, about what it means to love the Lord with our mind and, or so or strength. And those are different parts of of who we are and, and each of them, with each of them, we're called to love the Lord, fully. And then out of the overflow that love our neighbors.

00;01;38;03 - 00;01;44;11
Chris
And so there's a lot more to talk about there. And it'll be great to to circle back to some of these things, in the days ahead.

00;01;44;11 - 00;01;59;08
Brenton
So for sure. Well, it was an encouraging commitment Sunday. I think it was, you know, it was great. We had some fun in Burlington, when all the power cut out. So good job powering through on that. We made it.

00;01;59;10 - 00;02;21;02
Chris
Yeah. Yeah. It was an interesting moment wasn't it. And so those of you who are not part of the 830 Burlington service, the power went out right during the commitment time. And so came out and quickly back on quickly. But my mike did not. So it was Yeah. And and just an interesting moment and, and then we were talking.

00;02;21;02 - 00;02;22;28
Brenton
About your need to lose your control.

00;02;22;28 - 00;02;38;26
Chris
So. Right. And then I did and and just some people responded really well. So it was a great it was a great day. And, look forward to celebrating, all of that in a couple of weeks together once we, celebrate the resurrection Sunday. Yeah.

00;02;38;29 - 00;03;04;24
Brenton
A little housekeeping before we continue on today. Both of us are going to be out next week, so, we are not going to have an episode come out next week, but we'll be back when we get back into John the the week after that. So keep that in mind. I'm kind of curious, you know, this week you got up in front of I don't know how many people a lot of people, and told them all that they needed to die.

00;03;04;27 - 00;03;09;29
Brenton
How how was that? How what's that experience like?

00;03;10;01 - 00;03;40;00
Chris
Well, I think it's challenging, given the fact that we don't naturally want to and given as well how countercultural that message is in our culture. So, it's, I mean, it's often that I know that maybe what I'm going to be saying is going to be uncomfortable, but this was equally or may I say, equally, even maybe more so, uncomfortable, for me.

00;03;40;00 - 00;03;57;29
Chris
And like, I know where how this is maybe going to hit people. But it's been it's it really is one this is one of these examples of, a theme that is so prevalent in the Bible, especially the New Testament. And yet we, we would really prefer not to hear it.

00;03;58;02 - 00;04;05;24
Brenton
No, I was I was struck as you kept kind of laying out different, different passages from the New Testament that just say the same thing over and over.

00;04;05;27 - 00;04;34;25
Chris
Well one of the challenges in this message was how many different passages do I bring through. It's actually that that's a preaching challenge. At times is like okay, how I mean, we could keep going here and keep going and how much can people take in and what and how how much is enough to to show that, like, this is what the Scripture teaches, but then, you know, what does it get the point where, okay, we get it kind of a moment.

00;04;34;28 - 00;04;36;03
Brenton
But it's a very.

00;04;36;08 - 00;05;10;11
Chris
Common theme of, you know, Paul, is the the justification by faith, guy. Right. And yet it's it's interesting how often he talks about the implications of our, our justification. Which is really what I was talking about and ringing out on Sunday is, is and this is where it gets tricky is like, we're not justified by dying, to our, to ourself, but it is the overflow of the fact that we have we have died in Christ, you know, posses Galatians two.

00;05;10;12 - 00;05;26;23
Chris
This is one pass. I didn't I'm crucified with Christ. Nevertheless, I live in a life. I live in the body. I live by faith in the Son of God, who who died for me. So both of those things are in that verses. That would have been one that could have brought out two as well. Yeah.

00;05;26;25 - 00;05;47;13
Brenton
Yeah. All right. So you pointed out that the Greek language uses two words for life in verse 25. Can you kind of walk us through the difference in those? You said there's self life and eternal life, and then why is this distinction important? Why does it matter so much for how we follow Jesus?

00;05;47;16 - 00;06;15;15
Chris
Yeah. So if I can just actually go into the actual Greek words, the one, word for self life is literally where we get the word, our words psychology for them. It's it's a piece, y c h e and so it really like, you think about the ego. The human ego. That's what it's, it's referring to there.

00;06;15;17 - 00;06;40;27
Chris
Eternal life. We, we have in the English language that, adjective eternal. But really, the Greek word is Zoe. Zoe, which just means like real, true, like life. And so our English translations use the adjective there to distinguish between, because we don't have two different words for life in English. That's why they put, that there.

00;06;41;00 - 00;07;07;25
Chris
And so the, that self life is kind of, the one that is bent and turned inward in, in on itself, and this eternal life is the life that guy really created us, with in the first place. But that, I think died then, was sin. You know, we are dead in our transgressions and sin.

00;07;07;27 - 00;07;44;09
Chris
And, I believe that Adam and Eve had that life, before they fell in the garden. And now, we are restored to that life. And it's not just, you know, again, I keep bringing this distinction out, but I think is super important because, this is another thing, you know, we talk about the what we maybe learned in church growing up is not the, you know, been taught at all the always the best way, like, we've been given this idea that I get eternal life, like that's heaven and that's heaven, you know, part of it.

00;07;44;09 - 00;08;09;29
Chris
But eternal life is Jesus. We've seen this in the Gospels, and he talks about it as a present reality. Whoever believes in me has has passed from death to life has not not will, but currently, and that's that, that the Zoe word there. And so it's understanding that that, that, that is the life, that we have now.

00;08;09;29 - 00;08;33;24
Chris
No where. And this goes back to another distinction we talk about is the already and not yet. So we already have eternal life, but it's not we don't fully experience it yet because we're still battling with that old self. You know, there's where that old self comes back is as the old the old self, you know, is in one sense that we've died to it.

00;08;33;25 - 00;08;36;02
Chris
In another sense, we got to keep dying to it.

00;08;36;05 - 00;08;49;00
Brenton
Yeah. And so what what would you say are some indications as we kind of examine our lives, that we still have too much focus on the, the self life?

00;08;49;02 - 00;09;23;20
Chris
Yeah. I'm not sure that I in how much time I need to spend pointing this out to people, because these are pretty easy for for most of us to see. But we just we tend to just think about how everything relates to us. And our, our tendency tends to always be about what what people are doing to us or how some situation affects us or, we make matters about us.

00;09;23;23 - 00;09;46;09
Chris
You know, if we tie it into the great commandment, love your neighbor as yourself. We we don't, you know, do do we care for other people as much as we care or concern about our, our own self? And and the reality is, I think all of us can pretty quickly say know I care a whole lot more most of the time.

00;09;46;09 - 00;09;53;09
Chris
About what's happening to me and thinking about me than I do other people.

00;09;53;15 - 00;09;58;28
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. And that's a struggle that we all have, right? Like that's that's not going away necessarily.

00;09;59;03 - 00;10;42;24
Chris
You know, it's and it's not necessarily even like it's not like we're taught to ignore or so if Jesus doesn't even say don't love yourself, it's right. This is a hate yourself. In the great commandment, other places, you know, and you know, when Jesus uses this language. Eunice, hate your world in this life. It's comparative. He's not only, it's an it's actually a Jewish idiom that that means comparatively to how much you, you know, really love him and, and, and are focused on your, the eternal kind of life and the fruit in the results of of that kind of life.

00;10;42;26 - 00;10;52;01
Chris
He's not literally saying we should, I mean, because people do take that, they do take that the, the wrong way. Yeah.

00;10;52;03 - 00;10;54;09
Brenton
Yeah. That's right. I just.

00;10;54;09 - 00;11;02;06
Chris
Think if it doesn't take very, in my opinion, doesn't take very much reflection to just recognize how selfish we are. Right?

00;11;02;08 - 00;11;13;26
Brenton
That's correct. Yeah. It might be, you know, might be another step to admit it. Like, I think that we can see that in ourselves, but like, admitting it and actually dealing with it is, is another thing.

00;11;13;29 - 00;11;16;06
Chris
So yeah.

00;11;16;08 - 00;11;45;15
Brenton
All right. So I want to talk about your, your acorn analogy. Yeah. You gave everyone an acorn as they came in. Yeah. Your point was that there's, there's a whole forest in us, right. So we, you know, through through the work that, that, that Christ does in our life through his death and resurrection. We then have, the ability or, you know, the calling to produce fruit in our lives.

00;11;45;15 - 00;11;57;15
Brenton
So what, what fruit do you hope that our church will start to, to believe could come from their lives if they if they surrender fully? Like what? What's in view? Their.

00;11;57;18 - 00;12;31;12
Chris
Will. One of the reasons that I love the acorn illustration is because it has so many different ways that we can, actually apply it and think about it in so many different, even aspects of our life of how it applies to us. So if I can, point this out for a minute before I answer your question, before something I didn't even read, it was and it is like we see in, in Isaiah how we're we're called oaks of righteous oaks of righteousness.

00;12;31;14 - 00;13;00;13
Chris
Okay. So, you know, that's that's who he makes us, like, like we in, in oak trees are known for their, their endurance, their stability, their, you know, they're called the mighty oak. And, you know, like, they, they, they live generally speaking, if they're healthy, like, live for a long time, they're big trees, solid trees, really strong root system.

00;13;00;15 - 00;13;23;11
Chris
And we're told. Yeah, in Isaiah 61 that he that's, that's what God has made us or, and is making us his oaks of righteousness. And just like to think that that's we can look at our lives and think, you know, that's not who I am, but in, in, in reality, if we're a believer, we are righteous in his sight and he is in the process of making us that.

00;13;23;11 - 00;13;57;27
Chris
That's how he sees us and views us and desires us to be. So there's that. Like I, I didn't even again, maybe come back to the end of the time. But there's, there's, there's, there's just very simply that imagery. To answer your question about what fruit I hope the church will start to believe could come, is just to see that within us, those of us who have believed the gospel, now, you know, we have the power of God to salvation to to to be able to share with people we're not.

00;13;57;27 - 00;14;22;14
Chris
The power of God is salvation, but the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. And so now, as we, spread the gospel in, in, in, in word and deed, then other people can come to, to know him and, so that that's the fruit that, every single one of us, can produce.

00;14;22;14 - 00;14;42;18
Chris
And it's not just for the pastors or for the the leaders of the church or some few select people who are good at discipleship or evangelism. Yeah, there are people who are uniquely gifted and and all of that, but it it's the potential is there for for everyone. And that's, that's really when you know, talk about a growth, real growth point.

00;14;42;19 - 00;15;11;18
Chris
We'll get to this in in this all in journey over the next two years is like like we were all called to go and make the disciples, and to spread the gospel and, and and as we scatter the seed, the acorns out, you know, Jesus talks about the parable of the sower some and like there's there's so many different you know, I feel like one of the things I do on this podcast is we just go from Scripture, scripture, scripture, where there's so many different ones.

00;15;11;18 - 00;15;54;09
Chris
I just, you know, like, but compare this or Jesus, you throw the seed out and it lands on different soil. Our job isn't to grow the fruit. Our job is to throw out the the seed, and he takes care of growing the fruit. But we all have the seed to throw out. And if we, if you know the vision that I tried to share in this series and especially on Sunday, if we will capture this vision, I don't know if this Acorn illustration resonated with people or not, I'm sure probably not as much as I would have hoped that it would have, or maybe had these grand ideas, but if we would

00;15;54;09 - 00;16;17;22
Chris
get this idea, if we will just take our seed, the seed, and scatter it. You know, here's where another part of this illustration of an acorn oak tree, Oak trees produce a ton of acorns. And, on a good year, even I know even I over my yard a of years. So a lot of them will not actually turn into oak trees.

00;16;17;25 - 00;17;04;01
Chris
But some of them do. And, and so, yeah, there's people who will reject the gospel or they won't hear or don't hear the first time or the 10th time, but eventually will. But as we started to see, some of those will go in and grow. And so I just want everybody I think that if I just really, really would love and desire to see everybody in our church realize the potential that they have to, to make an impact for the gospel and to really believe that, that can happen if they will have audacious faith and trust the Lord and step into what he's he said, bring them into and realizing, you know,

00;17;04;01 - 00;17;31;01
Chris
we're we're we've got these new and improved facilities. We're, going to be pursuing and, so having bringing people into these facilities, but but also realizing there's a lot of people that will never on their own darken the doors of one of our facilities unless they're being, you know, invited or brought in or less that are reached first, with the gospel.

00;17;31;03 - 00;17;49;17
Chris
So we don't want to we don't want to just think that because we've got these buildings that people are going to, their lives are going to be changed, that it requires us believing that we can play a part in it. So. Right. I just want, you know, people to see, like, here's a visible reminder that this is my life.

00;17;49;19 - 00;17;55;09
Chris
You know, if I'm willing to use my life, God will produce much fruit.

00;17;55;12 - 00;18;08;17
Brenton
You said at the beginning of that that you know, the people that, maybe don't see that as a calling on their life evangelism, or maybe they don't see an ability to do that. Do you think that's common? Do you think that's.

00;18;08;24 - 00;18;11;14
Chris
Absolutely 100%.

00;18;11;16 - 00;18;15;03
Brenton
Why do you think that is? Like what? What do you think causes that.

00;18;15;05 - 00;18;53;06
Chris
Yeah, there's a yeah I think there's a lot of reasons. And that's a that's a whole discussion in and of itself. I don't, I don't think many people really believe that they, you know, just they literally have the ability to, to be able to, to do that. I think we have a lot of, a lot of trouble at times believing the that Romans 12, passage where Paul says, you know, don't think to no one should think more highly than themselves and how to think, but but think of sober judgment.

00;18;53;09 - 00;19;13;05
Chris
So sometimes we do think more highly of ourselves. But I think it's just is often the case, at least in the church, when we're talking about this issue, that people don't think soberly, like, I really do have gifts, because then Paul goes on the list. These gifts, like I have gifts that God has given me to be able to to to impact the kingdom, to serve the church and to serve the world.

00;19;13;07 - 00;19;39;24
Chris
And that really believing that they actually have the case. Further, maybe even a deeper issue is that it's a gospel issue, is, is we just, and this is why one of the reasons why we preach the gospel every week and try to do so very passionately is like, if you really get the gospel is transformed by the gospel, then it's going to it's going to overflow out of your life.

00;19;39;24 - 00;20;00;00
Chris
And in some way, I mean, how how can we truly believe that we've been saved from Satan, sin, and death by the grace of God and not by anything that we have done and not be like what? This is the greatest news ever. I mean, the gospel is good news, right? I mean, that's that's what it really, really means.

00;20;00;00 - 00;20;08;21
Chris
And so, it, it comes down to, in some ways a gospel issue. Yeah. Yeah.

00;20;08;23 - 00;20;09;23
Brenton
And that's another.

00;20;09;23 - 00;20;36;11
Chris
Time. Well, I mean, you know, and then there is also big goes back to the self we, we well, maybe they go back to the Good Samaritan story is like, do we like recognizing where the where the guy laying in the road half dead and we need if you are laying in the road like that, you're going to be really thankful.

00;20;36;14 - 00;20;57;12
Chris
That somebody has come alongside and cared for you and, just poured their life out for you to the point where, I mean, that guy who we don't know, Jesus didn't tell the rest of the story, but that guy's got to be he had to be changed by that interaction, right? Sure. Even if he wasn't, it maybe.

00;20;57;13 - 00;21;13;11
Chris
Maybe this makes a point. If that guy wasn't like after he got healed and if he's like, well, and he's not changed by that, we would say something's wrong there, right? How in how ungrateful is that guy? And so, yeah.

00;21;13;13 - 00;21;42;16
Brenton
Yeah. Well, I don't know. I guess not to belabor the point, but you know, there's. Yeah, it's a it's probably partly not recognizing totally what we were saved out of, and acknowledging that. But I think maybe, you know, you said people think too lowly of themselves in this situation, but maybe it's, it's a result of thinking too highly of our responsibility in it.

00;21;42;16 - 00;22;06;11
Brenton
You know, like, if we recognize that, that the spirit is the one that that regenerates and our job becomes far more confident that that Jesus will receive his people. And it takes, you know, we don't have to convince anyone in the heaven. And so, you know, it's it's just being faithful to what God is, is going to do.

00;22;06;13 - 00;22;40;17
Chris
So yeah, that's a fantastic point. And along with it is this is where, where is our identity and is our identity and being successful or is our identity. And just in being faithful to the one who who has made us his. And there's just a lot of work, I think, that most all of us have to do in terms of, I think people, we really can struggle to share the gospel because we're afraid of how people are going to respond, what they're going to think about us.

00;22;40;19 - 00;22;51;28
Chris
In, in all of that. And that's natural and completely understandable. I mean, I get it for, for sure. And so there's work that we need to do, around that issue as well. Yeah.

00;22;52;01 - 00;23;18;21
Brenton
Okay. You said that in verse 25 and 26, Jesus wants to take us from believing in him to becoming like him. And you also brought up Luke nine, quickly, verse 23 where Jesus says, if anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Firstly, what does Jesus mean by telling us to take up our cross?

00;23;18;23 - 00;23;50;20
Chris
I think it just means the same thing we're talking about in John 12 and the other passages, as he's telling us that we needed to die. And I think the word daily is really helpful there is that it's not just a one time thing. Romans 12 two. We talked about this in the series, you know, at the very first message, Paul says, you know, in view of the mercies of God, let us, you know, to, offer ourselves as a living sacrifice.

00;23;50;22 - 00;24;16;27
Chris
A living sacrifice. That's right. Okay. It's a it's a it's a it's a a recurring theme because you can kill your flesh one day, and the next day it's back at it, right? Or you kill us like you, you kill a sin and you're like, okay, I defeated it today. I said, no, I resist the temptation. It doesn't.

00;24;16;29 - 00;24;42;26
Chris
It doesn't stay dead, right? I mean, it's just like it it's I mean, maybe first, maybe there are there are times I should I should be clear here, like, there are times, or people are addicted to something and they are delivered by the Lord, and they never, they just don't experience that temptation anymore. That happens. That's the exception, not the rule.

00;24;42;29 - 00;25;05;02
Chris
And so, yeah, it's just a continual, process where we gotta keep fighting sin. And I think it was John O. And, Puritan who said, we have to be killing sin or it will be killing us, you know, and I think that that's my experience and the experience of most, if not every Christian I've ever known for sure.

00;25;05;04 - 00;25;28;13
Brenton
Okay. So, you know, this isn't a real popular message in American Christianity. Often the gospel is proclaimed as what Jesus can do for us. And, you know, well, while not necessarily addressing the response that we're called to, what would you say the consequences of not addressing a clear command like this are?

00;25;28;16 - 00;26;00;08
Chris
Well, I think that first of all, I want to say, I think this is a great, point that you bring up because I think it is absolutely true that in American Christianity it's mostly about what Jesus, you know, what he can do for you come in like he's going to do this for you. And which runs into a lot of problems because when Jesus doesn't do for people what they come to him to do, then, okay, I'm I'm out of here.

00;26;00;08 - 00;26;31;18
Chris
I'm done. Or I'm angry with God or the church or both. And so that that's part of how I answer the question. The other part would be, this is like if we don't I mean, maybe the best way would be to talk about marriage for a second. You know, if I don't if I don't die to to myself, that's going to have consequences for my marriage.

00;26;31;20 - 00;27;01;10
Chris
Yeah. Like, if I'm if I just am selfish and I don't die to what I want or desire. Like, how does that had. It doesn't work in marriage is. And that's what we can see all all over the place. In you you hear people things like, you know, my husband's not growing enough for me or, you know, my wife's not doing x, Y, and Z, and, you know, not meeting my needs.

00;27;01;14 - 00;27;30;15
Chris
Like, he's not me. She's not meeting my needs. And that, that's just a death knell to to marriage. And and on the other side is that if I am willing to die for my spouse, that will allow them to to live. And, you know, Paul talks in that Ephesians five passage about marriage. You know, husbands, love your wives as you love yourself.

00;27;30;17 - 00;27;53;26
Chris
But but, I'm sorry. He said, husbands love your wives as your own body because he who loves his wife loves himself. It's really, really interesting there because the two are one. And so, like, what's best for, for me in my marriage is for me to die to myself so that my wife can live. Because of my wife living, I actually lived so.

00;27;53;27 - 00;28;09;20
Chris
So it's it's not like in an either or. That's where I think like, oh, I'm just going to die. I'm going to be like, take all of this. No, no, no, there's there's the best thing for, for, for even for me is for me to die, for my wife and for and best thing for my wife is for her to die.

00;28;09;24 - 00;28;36;11
Chris
Die for me and those things. But ultimately, the consequences are like, this life that, I think the Beatitudes are great. I go back to them on a regular basis because they're a perfect example of this. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. When we're poor in spirit and we are exactly a king, we die to this idea that we can save ourselves.

00;28;36;14 - 00;29;01;27
Chris
What we actually inherit is the kingdom of heaven. And what he's talking about there is not just really primarily like a future thing, but the blessings of the kingdom of heaven, the life of the kingdom of heaven. This, the Old Testament word is shalom, right? This was just everybody. Oh, that's peace. But but shalom is like this whole it's not this like this inner peace, like, Kung Fu Panda.

00;29;02;00 - 00;29;27;13
Chris
You know, Kung Fu Panda. I'm familiar. Yeah. I'm sure. But it's it's like this inner tranquility. It's an overall like, you know, experience of life. It's relational peace, with human beings, with God. It's it does include an inner peace, too. And so that's the kind of life that, we we are we don't ourselves.

00;29;27;13 - 00;29;47;02
Chris
We're anxious, you know, we end up being afraid. We end up running on this, this constant treadmill I've got to perform and all that kind of stuff and things. And we go on and on. We're willing to to to die. That allows actually this life to actually flower. In us.

00;29;47;05 - 00;30;03;07
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. Verse 26 says that if anyone serves me, the father will honor him. What do you think that honor looks like? What? What is what is he talking about? There?

00;30;03;09 - 00;30;33;03
Chris
Yeah. I, I think that there's both, again, a present, a reality and a future reality in this. I think the future reality is the, you know, those words, well done, good and faithful servant will enter into the joy of your master. That's the future. That's the judgment day. Or at least the day where we we pass from this earth, into heaven.

00;30;33;06 - 00;31;05;24
Chris
I think in the present time, it's actually, we do get to experience more of the, father's literally his presence in our life or experience. What? I want to say, it's escaping me. Maybe it's Augustine, the smile of God. And, the in fact, check me on. That's probably wrong, but, if I'm sure you probably did it right here, right now.

00;31;05;27 - 00;31;39;03
Chris
But, Oh, oh, I see you still posting. No, no. That's not. Yeah. Thanks for that. But I, you know, the example that I used on Sunday about my personally and in the moment that, I had with the Lord, I didn't share this, but I literally. Right, you know, tears in my eyes on Thursdays is wrestling with this.

00;31;39;03 - 00;32;02;11
Chris
So where he he gave me the answer to the question I have asked numerous times over the last 12 weeks. It's like, yeah. And you might think he like you. If God says, yes, I am trying to kill you. Your your response, your first response might be, why would he? That's terrible. But but it wasn't because it was like he he cares.

00;32;02;12 - 00;32;36;23
Chris
And like he's working in my my life. He's president. He's trying to do something in me. And so when we when we are we we respond to his work and his call to die. Then then there's a very clear evidence that he's working. And like, he's with me and like, I'm not here on my on my own. And he cares enough about me to actually want me to, to walk more fully into what it means to, to to be, his child.

00;32;36;25 - 00;33;01;03
Chris
So it can be hard to hear, like, yeah, I am. Yep. Yeah, I am. I am taking you through a really difficult time, but I'm doing it for good purposes. And I think that that's, maybe this is a little bit off topic, but I think so often we we we we we, we look at difficult circumstances and we're like, why Guy would you do that to me?

00;33;01;03 - 00;33;19;10
Chris
And his answer is will be because I'm trying to do something for you here that you weren't going to allow me to do any other way, and not that we don't like. We can not allow God to just, you know, I want to be careful there and that we can't prevent God for doing anything but like, are we open?

00;33;19;10 - 00;33;39;05
Chris
Are we going to be open to it? Yeah. And a lot of times we're not going to be open to his deep work in us until he actually takes us through something that where we just sit like, okay, my hand, I got to him, I got to surrender, throw my hands up in the air because, you know, and, that can be really scary.

00;33;39;05 - 00;34;06;28
Chris
I think probably people are listening right now like, oh, that would be really scary. And yeah, for sure. But that's where it there's life on the on the other hand. And, and I would just finish with this, this is why again, we need a deeper understanding of the gospel because, my first Corinthians 118 the preaching of the the cross, the word of the cross is foolishness.

00;34;07;01 - 00;34;28;12
Chris
But to those of us who are being say this, the power of God and the word of the cross is about a, God who became weak and vulnerable. And people can hear that God became we can, you know, that's what that's what? Yes, that's Philippians two. That's what the cross is. God making himself weak and he's not.

00;34;28;12 - 00;34;59;27
Chris
But he he made himself become that. He took on the form of a servant. And and yet what came out of that was the greatest success in history. There's no even dying like from a or not even debating that from a, just any type of, measure. Jesus is the most successful person in history. Okay, so let's take a while to take the spiritual connotation.

00;35;00;04 - 00;35;20;19
Chris
But like billions and billions of followers of Jesus. Okay. And we could we could talk. There are the Joe Steins of the world, you know, and all that kind of stuff. So use that. But, but but and by any measure, billions and billions of people. He's the most successful person in history. And he didn't he did it by dying.

00;35;20;21 - 00;35;49;29
Chris
Right. And and that's not all the like the spiritual rich like and all the people who are truly believers and just all of the fruit in lives that have been changed and like, all that kind of stuff. And so I'm going on here, but we this is where we probably feel our lack of true, robust, gospel centered ness when we don't grasp how the gospel is more than simply getting us into heaven.

00;35;50;01 - 00;36;17;10
Chris
It is actually the model for for the way that true life is experienced. Now is by dying, not by it's not up, it's down. It's not by exalting ourselves, by humbling ourselves because that's what our Savior did. And so following Jesus like, what does it truly mean to be a follower of Jesus? To be a follower of Jesus means to, to to lay our life down as he did, not just not just for you.

00;36;17;11 - 00;36;42;22
Chris
Lay your lady down. You know he's gotta take up your cross daily. That's where we misses like David Cross daily. Is it hard? Is it difficult? Yes. But it's. But it's also the way to life, right. Because and here's another thing. And the church, that that we, we've just missed it. Like, I think at least we've given people the wrong understanding that following Jesus is just like, it's just tough and you just gotta kind of grind it out, right?

00;36;42;24 - 00;37;07;12
Chris
Yeah. And it's it, it is tough. And there are days there's lots of calls for endurance but y but but there's something on the other side. And it's not just heaven when we die. It's there is life in the present right here. And right now. And somehow I got into a sermon here in the podcast, but I'll finish on that note.

00;37;07;12 - 00;37;17;23
Chris
It's great because because we got two coming up this weekend. Right. What's the whole deal of Easter weekend? You know, Good Friday, Easter, death, resurrection.

00;37;17;25 - 00;37;21;20
Brenton
Yeah. I got nothing to follow up on that. So. Yeah.

00;37;21;20 - 00;37;23;05
Chris
Thank you. We'll see you in two weeks.

00;37;23;11 - 00;37;38;12
Brenton
Yeah. For sure. So yeah, we got, Easter obviously this week. So come out to our Good Friday and Easter services. Again just a reminder we'll be out next week. So two weeks from now you'll hear from us. But, thanks for listening. Good. Two weeks.